The Glorious "Gospel of Election"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by skypair, Dec 26, 2007.

  1. skypair

    skypair
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    Time for "truth in advertising...

    Gospels are named according to their promise -- OT "gospel of the kingdom" promised salvation in the coming kingdom of Messiah. The NT "gospel of Jesus Christ" promised salvation "in Christ."

    The "gospel of election," preached at least since Augustine, promised the salvation of the elect, the chosen of God. And it happens that, to those who believe this gospel, God guarantees repentance and faith in Christ but such "works" have no part in salvation itself. Saving faith is in "election" -- faith that God chooses them, they don't choose Him -- and that God gives them all such things that appertain to spiritual rebirth during this life.

    It appears that "effectual calling" is a "spiritual notification system" by which God lets them know through giving them repentance, faith, indwelling, spiritual gifts, "Lordship works," etc. that they are "elect"/chosen by Him. Only they can "hear" this message (Although many others of us understand the same message to mean that WE must choose, that just shows that we are NOT "elect.").

    Some "gospel of elect" believers say salvation comes over the period of their entire life -- some say awareness of salvation comes at a point in time when they "hear" God and begin to obey His commands. But whichever, it was God Who chose them "before the foundation...", possibly for the hidden purpose of His own majesty (which is the same reason some of them say He also chooses most to damnation). But since it is a "hidden purpose," we cannot truly know why God chooses whom He does to salvation.

    So the main features of the "gospel of election" (as I understand it) are 1) God chooses who will be saved 2) according as it gives Him glory and majesty 3) "before the foundation...." 4) He "notifies" the elect of their salvation through the Bible gospel 5) which only the "elect" can understand as meaning they have absolutely NO hand in saving themselves (though Luther alludes to the prerequisite of total humility which should in no wise be taken as being a "merit" by which God chooses any man.) 6) It is likely under this "gospel" that some babies go to heaven on account of "election" since no act is required on any man's/infant's behalf in order to be saved.

    skypair
     
    #1 skypair, Dec 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2007
  2. J.D.

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    I've never heard of the "Gospel of Election". But Election is indeed a glorious truth, and is indeed a "gospel" of sorts - being good news in that God has chosen to save a multitude of undeserving sinners from their own depraved natures, wills, and choices, which lead to their destruction; and there is no chance whatsoever that God will fail to gather in His elect from the four corners of the Earth. Hurray for God!!
     
  3. skypair

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    Wow!

    Then I pretty much "nailed" the gospel Calvinism preaches! And salvation is not centered in Christ but in the "elections" of God. Is the gospel truly "Believe on God's Election and thou shalt be saved."

    See, I think this is what webdog was trying to point out on another thread -- that if y'all repent towards Christ and other good works, it is not unto salvation but it is your striving for assurance and trying to keep yourself pure. You've mastered the TULI and are working on the P.

    But is it really God's election that determines your salvation? Is God's election really an unchangable decree of either salvation or condemnation by which you you expect to be saved? Is there truly no condition for salvation?

    skypair
     
  4. Tom Bryant

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    Why don't you guys just quit trying to smear people? Calvinists don't believe in the gospel of election anymore than we non-Calvinists believe that we earn our salvation.

    The question was asked about Falwell's tomb when is enough enough... when is trying to smear other believers of one stripe or another enough?
     
  5. skypair

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    Luther thought the notion was so important that he said that those who don't believe in God's election have no part in Christianity.

    63 views went by with only one answer.

    The "gospel of election" says you can do nothing and you need do nothing --- either you believe you are elect or you aren't.

    skypair
     
  6. Tom Bryant

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    Luther was wrong about alot of issues, so quoting him means nothing.

    What you call the Gospel of election is an inaccurate misrepresentation of what Calvinists believe. I am not a Calvinist, but if we are going to discuss the issue, it is neither helpful nor accurate to act like the Calvinists believe in another Gospel.

    You're providing the term, you're providing the definition. But neither is accurate.
     
  7. Rippon

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    Thanks Tom . Coming from a non-Calvinist your comments add a lot of weight .

    SP is honing his skills as a provocateur I guess .
     
  8. reformedbeliever

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    I have not even read the op. I tend to read what Rippon has to say, along with quite a few others. As a matter of fact, there are only a few that I tend to avoid reading........ and sky is one of them. It seems that there is nothing he has to say that is of any importance. I wonder why that is?
     
  9. TCGreek

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    Tom,

    I must agree with Rippon. Thanks for displaying your objectivity on this issue. :thumbs:
     
  10. canadyjd

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    To continue the "truth in advertising" theme, let's compare what skypair claims calvinists believe concerning election, with what a calvinist really believes concering election. Let's take a look at John MacArthur since we've been discussing him so much.
    And so John MacArthur says that
    The "trust" or "faith" that is exercised is in Jesus Christ, not in God's "election" of them to salvation.


    peace to you:praying:
     
  11. skypair

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    He SAYS that but is that where his theology leads us? No. Where what JMd leads us is that 1) God elects/chooses and 2) God "dictates"/predestines to those He chooses what they will believe. The hope is NOT in what we believe but in our election/choosing by God.

    Suppose you were not "elect" right now. Is there ANY hope in believing in Christ? Absolutely not! You cannot be non-elect -- predestined to condemnation -- and hope that Jesus will save you. Is that not a fact? Your ONLY hope is in election, not in Christ because election comes first according to y'all.

    skypair
     
    #11 skypair, Dec 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2007
  12. skypair

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    Do you believe that election is a) to salvation or b) to God's purpose for your life? A simple a) or b) answer will do. Don't get emotionally engaged here -- just a simple a) or b).

    skypair
     
  13. Tom Bryant

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    No emotions here... it's a wonderful debating tactic you've employed. You give me the questions. You provide the "only" answers.

    I reject the tactic.
     
  14. canadyjd

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    My hope is in Jesus Christ, who He is and what He did. He is the object of our faith, as MacArthur repeatedly affirms, not our "election".

    You would have us believe there are some who desire to be saved, but God is turning them back and condemning them to hell because they were not part of His "elect". Scripture rejects that notion. First, all have rejected God's revelation. There are none who are seeking for God.

    Secondly, we cannot assume to know who is "elect" and who isn't, since that knowledge is privy only to God, Himself. We must only affirm what scripture testifies to. No one can come to the Father unless he is drawn, according to the kind intention of His will, and all that come will not be turned back.

    The problem is only in your mind. You do not like the idea of the Sovereign God of the Universe deciding the fate of His creation, but instead would have their fate determined by their own fallen, marred, and enslaved wills.

    Always trust in God's will, and not in man's will.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    Therein lies the crux of skypair's problem.
    He is revulsed by the idea that God can and would choose whom He wants, draw whom He wants, reject whom He wants, save whom He wants.

    How dare God ?
     
  16. webdog

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    ...or are you repulsed in the manner by which God chooses, draws, rejects and saves?
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    No, I am very content with His way because my way is the way of corruption, His is the way of righteousness.
    I know nothing, He knows everything.
    In me dwelleth no good thing, in Him dwelleth all goodness.
     
  18. Jarthur001

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    I am glad it is my God choosing. Others seem to hate the idea.
     
  19. convicted1

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    Election

    I am kinda in th middle between Calvinism and Arminianism(sp?)...if there is such a thing as being between the two. I do believe in "election", but I believe the "election" is when God starts "drawing" lost people towards Him. And the "election" is presented to all, but not all will accept His gift. When Jesus spoke to the chief priests, He told them if He hadn't spoken to them, they would have a cloak for their sins, but now that He had spoken to them, they had no cloak for their sins. Jesus came to His OWN, but His own received Him not. But, as many as did receive Him, gave He them power to become the sons of God. He did come to His own first....He told the apostles to first go to Jersusalem and around Israel first....not to the gentiles. He gave all of Israel the first chance to believe on Him and His works....not the gentiles.
     
  20. skypair

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    Aw, c'mon, Tom. You're not playing the game right. I'll offer my answers ahead of time. I still would like to hear your counter. Or if I happen to "hit the nail on the head" (I have been doing that a lot lately --- I'm building a privacy fence in my back yard :laugh: ), your "no lo contendre." Learning and growing in Christ should be fun, don't you think?

    skypair
     

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