The Gospel...Is it a God ordained means for regeneration or eternal salvation ?

Were not all of these questions answered in the "Cavinistic comments" thread? Hmmm...

The question you have yet to answer is:

Will someone stand before God the Father as the elect of God, and ask "Who is Jesus?"???

Many passages were given you about the exclusive way to the Father. Those are Christ's words, not mine. Your problem is not with me, it is with Him, for He is the One who said "no one comes to the Father but by Me".

A great model for salvation is given here:

Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

A Jesus-less salvation is no salvation at all. Those are His words, not mine.

Please show us all a passage that says "believe you are elect, and you will be saved"...

As I said before, Hyper-Calvinism downplays the responsibilities of man, by exalting the Sovereignty of God.

Is it not more logical to say God will have His elect believe in the One who secured their pardon?

Thanks,

Theo

 

Hey, funny how some of the Calvinists here seem to think that all Arminians are Pelagians, and that now maybe I should start posting about all Calvinists being Gnostics

Just Kidding of course. I hate blanket statements about entire groups, when of course, many different views are held by folks who get lumped in together.

Anyways, speaking to the Gnostic form of Calvinism, I found this article interesting.
Neo-Gnostic Calvinism

 

Hey, funny how some of the Calvinists here seem to think that all Arminians are Pelagians, and that now maybe I should start posting about all Calvinists being Gnostics

Just Kidding of course. I hate blanket statements about entire groups, when of course, many different views are held by folks who get lumped in together.

Anyways, speaking to the Gnostic form of Calvinism, I found this article interesting.
Neo-Gnostic Calvinism

 

That article basically describes groups like Outside the Camp.

 

Sorry for the double post...don't know what happened.

Never heard of Outside the Camp. I more thought of the Gnostic bent when I visited a little place called 5Solas.org and ran into articles there like Should We Give Arminians Assurance of Salvation? and Does God Save Sinners Through a False Gospel?.

Their soteriology forums are a pretty unfriendly place to "Arminian Heretics" as they term them.

 

Hey, funny how some of the Calvinists here seem to think that all Arminians are Pelagians, and that now maybe I should start posting about all Calvinists being Gnostics

Just Kidding of course. I hate blanket statements about entire groups, when of course, many different views are held by folks who get lumped in together.

Anyways, speaking to the Gnostic form of Calvinism, I found this article interesting.
Neo-Gnostic Calvinism </font>[/QUOTE]Hey there LaymansTermsPlease,

I was actually talking about Hyper-Calvinists, but I see what you are saying. Though I don't care for blanket statements either, it's kinda hard not to make 'um sometimes! I get lumped in with the Hyper-Calvinists all the time. I am told many times that I believe stuff that I actually do not believe, it makes for good conversation though! hehehe

I love the Monergism web-site. From what I understand, Outside the Camp is a Hyper-Calvinistic web-site.

Did you agree with what you read about the "Neo-Gnostic Calvinism" stuff?

 

Hehehe, alrighty then...

 

So the gospel is peace?

Just kidding brother. I understand, but that is a very difficult passage, it has been so much hurt by those wishing to put God's Sovereignty beneath a 'gospel' preacher's obedience.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

The gospel brings an awakening of the individual to the fact of the quickening of the spirit by the Power of God unto salvation which is the gospel, which is the Holy Spirit.

Quickening requires only the power of God, believing the message of the gospel, in some measure, requires previous quickening, there is not scripture that teaches any other order; there is not one scenario from the NT that can provide any other semblance of order and remain consistent that man does not do anything to save himself.

Bro. Dallas

 

5solas is the same type of thing as Outside the Camp. Doesn't even have to be "hyper" or "gnostic"; just another formof one-upmanship. Of course, their "complete understanding" was sovereingly given them by God, not themselves. (though it wasn't around the first 3 centuries of the church; was anyone saved back then?).
But they deny Christ alone as much as what they criticize, because salvation is faith in the doctrine of preterition or reprobation for all who do not believe. IF you don't believe that, you are trusting in your own righteousness, or "faith in Christ plus their own faith". It is the fallacy of faith as a good work.
With all the complaints of misrepresentation or claiming to know what the person believes (and their concern about "name-calling; mocking their understanding of sovereignty, etc) these days, I don't see how they can judge others belief as self-righteousness.

 

Ok, since you claim you answered a question you said you didn't understand there, please show us a passage that says we can come to the Father some other way than through Christ!

If you desire to resort to comments about who I agree with and dis-agree with, that has no relevance here. I dis-agree with you and Skandelon on certain things, but I also agree with Skandelon and you on certain things, so what was your purpose in those comments again???

If you want to claim that "True Calvinists" are those that believe similarly to you, then take a peek at these things:

Quotations from Calvin's Commentaries:

God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, but the ingratitude of the world is the reason why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few. (Synoptic Gospels 1:116)

As no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open to all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. (Acts 1:92)

Though it is offered to all for salvation, it does not yield this fruit in any but the elect. (Synoptic Gospel. 2:257)

God ...shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to faith in Christ ...For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith. (John 1:125)

... the end and design of public teaching...that all should in common be called; but God's purpose is different; for he intends, according to his own secret counsel, to draw to himself the elect, and he designs to take away all excuse from the reprobate. (Joel- Obadiah 252)

Paul makes grace common to all men, not because it in fact extends to all, but because it is offered to all. (Romans 117-118)

Christ ... kindles for all indiscriminately the torch of his gospel; but all have not the eyes of their minds opened to see it, but on the contrary Satan spreads the veil of blindness over many. (General Epistles 273-274)

God commands [the gospel] to be offered indiscriminately to all. (Genesis 1:503)

[God]...commands his threatenings to be proposed to the elect, and reprobate, in common. (Genesis 1:255)

God's mercy is offered for the worst of men. (Four Last Books of Moses 3:240)

It is our duty to pray for all who trouble us; to desire the salvation of all men. (Psalm 4:283)

Elsewhere in the above book of Calvin quotations, we have the following indications that Calvin believed in the free indiscriminate offer of the gospel:

The gospel is to be preached indiscriminately to the elect and to the reprobate: but the elect alone come to Christ, because they have been taught of God. (Isaiah 4:146)

God offers his word indiscriminately to the good and bad; but it works by his spirit in the elect…as to the reprobate…it renders them without excuse. (Ezekiel 1:113)

You see anything here pinoybaptist? The Gospel is given to all, but all do not recieve it, as I have said all along, but you call this double talk, right? You say the Gospel is for the saints, I agree with Calvin and say that the Gospel is used by God to draw His elect.

You don't understand Calvinism, if you think you hold to what you call "True Calvinism".

 

pinoybaptist, check this out.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/hypercalvinism.html

You continue to charge me with saying that the Gospel regenrates, and I have not said that, I have said God is pleased to use the Gospel to draw men unto Himself. Do you deny that God is a God of means?

 

The above quote is taken from the website you posted, btw, a great source, thanks very much!

Notice, there is no claim that 'hyper-Calvinism' can, will, or does, or shall have kill, kills, is killing, or will have killed the Spirit of God, I thought that was an interesting point that just jumped off the quote at me. See, we may witness the death of an untrue 'spirit' in man, but not in the farthest stretch of the doctrine of Sovereign Grace will we ever witness the death of the Spirit of God in the elect. That is the issue.

Bro. Dallas

 

Okay, if you say you're not saying the Gospel regenerates, then I withdraw the charge, and apologize.

But, I still say that God does not use the Gospel to draw men unto Himself. John 12:32 says, 'and I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto me.' He is the one who draws men to Himself, thru the cross. </font>[/QUOTE]And where is the proclamation of the cross? Is it not the Gospel????????

So now you agree that God is a God of means? God uses the "cross" and not the Gospel?

John 12:32 does not give a positive affirmation of your position.

Why won't you answer my question? If it is Christ's cross that "draws", then will there be those who are elect that stand before God the Father and "Who is this Jesus, and what is this cross you speak of"???