The Gospel vs. Politics

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 4His_glory, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
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    One things I have seen and learned from living outside the US, is how American Christianity is infected with "americanism". Countless evangelicals, without out realizing it view the Bible through an american lens. Sometimes it seems that many US christians see the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence as a way to live the Christian life.

    If Obama wins the upcoming election, one can be certain that their will be many evangelical voices crying doom and gloom for the USA. "We need to fight for our liberties and a godly country!" is the battle cry. But should it be?

    While the freedoms we enjoy as Americans are a blessings, we must remember that they are just that a blessing. God gives and takes away those blessings as He pleases according to His plan. Our first brothers in Christ certainly did not have the liberties that we hold dear. But they understood something that modern American Christianity has forgotten- we who are saved by God are citizens first of a higher kingdom. Therefore we do not "change" America through elections, boycotts, and lobbying. We simply must preach the Gospel and the pure Gospel.

    Buy all means exercise your liberty to vote while you have it. Voice your opinion in a gracious and Christ like matter. But realize that politicking will not save America. Outlawing abortion will not save America. Conservative judges will not save America. Only Christ will save America.

    Here is a quote from Erwin Lutzer in his book "The Cross can do What Politics can´t":

    He also said:
    Regarding politics Spurgeon with his usual wit said:
    And finally here is link to a good article by Dr. MacArthur in regards to political activism.
     
  2. NiteShift

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    And I have heard Christians from other countries define their faith through the lens of anti-Americanism, as if they were somehow more righteous because they were opposed to America. [​IMG]
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    We have no business separating our Christian life from our political life. Whether we are dealing in political issues, home issues etc it is all part of our Christian walk. There is no Christian walk and a secular walk. And Christians should stand up and be loud and clear on any and all issues. Many "worry" about politics effecting Christianity negatively but refuse to allow that Christianity effects politics positively.

    Outlawing abortion is the protecting of innocent lives. And we need to be standing up and speaking the loudest for those who cannot speak for themselves. It appears even Christians have become desensitized to the abortion issue. Quite frankly I don't understand it.

    The Declaration, Bill of Rights, and the Constitution were all founded on biblical principles as was America. A country that honors God will be blessed. Those with anti-nationalism ideologies do not like that fact. Quite frankly I don't care.

    Presenting politics and a Christian walk as being diametrically opposed is false. It is not an either or situation. Both are being done quite well. It seems that many are seeing opposition to the gospel in these last days as a result of the Christian communities failure to do it correctly. The Christan community has always been flawed this is nothing new. But these "many" refuse to consider that those who oppose the gospel just simply oppose God.

    We should be more concerned by those who water down the gospel with poor views of the Word of God, little to no view of hell, a complete denial of the wrath of God, and a refusal to actually share the gospel by means of actually sharing what the Bible says.

    We have no business removing ourselves from politics or leading dual lives ie a Christian one and a secular one. All of our lives are part of our Christian walk.
     
  4. Palatka51

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    Polycarp - A Martyr for Truth
    The fact that Polycarp would not submit to Caesar worship is a reason why so many Evangelicals are in direct opposition to the politics in modern America. The State has become the great benefactor and is reaching into areas of life that is solely the duty of the Church. Government as such is demanding worship from it's subjects. The more rights we relinquish the sooner we will be in direct conflict with the all mighty state. Why, it is even granting human life to live or die in the womb.

    Polycarp pushed back and it is time that the Church of Christ did the same. Just as Polycarp did.
     
  5. Gold Dragon

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    As a Canadian who has moved to Australia over the last few years, it is interesting to see how removing ourselves from our culture gives us a different perspective on it. Australian culture has a lot of similar issues as Canadian culture. Both have strong influences from American and British culture except with a different mix while trying to preserve/create its own identity. Seeing that difference has given me some insight into my own influences and those of my fellow Canadians.

    I encourage you to treasure the different perspective you have but not to expect others to agree with it. Thank you for sharing it.

    I agree with you that Christianity in the US and both Canada and Australia has been strongly influenced by politics to its detriment. While the solution is not to remove politics from our faith, we do need to be aware of the influence of politics on us.

    Amen to Christ being what will save people and not our political and governmental institutions and policies.
     
    #5 Gold Dragon, Oct 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2008
  6. superwoman8977

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    Okay but isnt there verses in the bible that we are to live our lives with the law and well wouldnt that include the bill of rights and the declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Thats why I am totally for politics to be in the church. The church I used to attend back home had a committee that monitored special laws and votes and things and now is registering members to vote. I guess thats why I dont want separation of church and state because I just cant see our government being ran without God (ie: In God we trust) okay just my 2 cents.
     
  7. donnA

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    Our government is already ran without God, if they ran our country with God we wouldn't have abortions, there'd be no question about gay unions/marriage and a lot of other things would be different. In God we trust is nothing more then a saying, it has no real meaning to to our country as a whole. If it did this country would be a lot different then it is now. Seperation of church and state means the governemnt does not run the church(and vice versa), has no say over what the church does or teaches. Otherwise the state could dictate what the preacher could legally preach, pick out parts of the bible that disagreed with the state. We've seen this in history in Europe and the UK. A mingling of church and stae is not good. This does not mean christians can not or should not be politically minded. We are citizens of this country and have the responsibiblity as christians of supporting candidates who are as close to scripture in their views as possible.
     
  8. 4His_glory

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    Perhaps, but that has not been my experience. I have never seen this to be true.
     
  9. AresMan

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    I would say that many U.S. Christian do not see the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence as a way to live the Christian life. They may claim these documents, yet not truly uphold the real Christian values and freedoms expressed in them. Too many Christians are purely nationalistic, statist, and theocratic, and do not see the patriotism and Christian values inherent in the reading of our founding documents.
     
  10. 4His_glory

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    I do not deny that there are some biblical ideas in the founding documents, but many christians do hold them up almost to the level of Scripture. How often to we here "if only we would get back to the Constitution how are nation would be blessed!" or "If only such and such person was elected, our nation would be so much better. "

    Better? Perhaps morally in some sense. Yet better spiritually? I contend that is not the case because the Constitution, or conservative politicians (whom I support) do not improve the spiritual life of a nation. God does that through the church by means of His word faithfully proclaimed by His servants.

    John MacArthur says it well:
    Believers are not called to turn liberals to conservatism or Democrats to Republicans (or whatever your party preference is) but rather to point sinners to faith and repentance in Christ.

    While I do not have a problem with voting or making ones voice heard on a certain issue. But I do contend against the prevailing notion that we need to put our resources, efforts, money and energy into making our nation a "Christian nation" through political activism. This is is unbalanced and unbiblical. As I said before- vote, write your senator, publish opinions, but don´t become unbalanced and lose your focus on what is most important and what makes the most difference.

    In short, we do not confront the Godless culture and Christ-less climate with politics, we do so with Spirit empowered holy living and fervent declaration of the Gospel.
     
    #10 4His_glory, Oct 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2008
  11. Aaron

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    Name just one.
     
  12. NiteShift

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    Well for instance, in a particular northen European country, I listened to people who spoke of Americans as innately immoral, while maintaining that their own country's experience with the Nazi euthanasia program was just an anomoly, or a mistake. Or Christians in a certain Asian nation who blamed America for the division of their country, and said that the US would be judged by God because of it. This is what I had in mind.
     
  13. 4His_glory

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    Name one what? I don´t understand your question.
     
  14. 4His_glory

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    Sorry to hear that. Makes you wonder how "Christian" the really are.
     
  15. John of Japan

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    Hey, I'm with 4His_Glory on this one. I find people like he described every time I go back to America. "Name just one" you say? If I took their names when I met them I could have dozens of names. But that doesn't matter.

    What America really needs is revival. We could elect a full slate of Christians in congress and a born again Baptist president, and it still wouldn't stem the tide. The only thing that can save America is saints on their knees, repenting and praying for a Holy Spirit sent revival.

    I love America. I miss it all the time, and sometimes think of quitting the mission field so we could go back there to live. But America now compared to America when I first left it 27 years ago is in very, very sad shape.
     
  16. Jim1999

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    What does separation of church and state really mean to Americans? I really don't understand it. In my mind, I see Americans claiming separation of church and state when something happens that doesn't suit them, whether it be political or religious.

    We don't have separation of church and state in Canada, and we must fight to defend our individual rights regarding our beliefs. Perhaps this makes us deeper in our belief system, I don't know. We have shallowites too!

    Cheers,

    Jim

    A legal citizen of both the UK and Canada, but essentially an unofficial citizen of the world in a Christian sense.
     
  17. 4His_glory

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    Jim, that about sums it all up right there for me. Amen. I feel that the majority of american Christians have lost there sense of true identity. They have become Americans first and Christians second though they would never admit that. Some how to them the church can´t survive if we don´t have a "Christian nation" (whatever that is).

    God doesn´t need the USA, or Canada, or Europe, or any nation on the face of the globe to accomplish His purposes.
     
  18. tinytim

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    For an example of "Americanism" that 4HIS_Glory was speaking of, we only need to look back 7 yrs ago.

    The weeks after 9/11 the churches were full. Many new faces showed up for answers. They were searching for God... but did the churches give them the truth... NO.

    All the churches did was promote patriotism, and a call for revenge.

    And within a few months, those that were searching.. .left.
    Why? The Gospel was replaced with Americanism. And people left our churches feeling empty... Possibly never to return. American Christians, we blew it back then! We started singing "Star Spangled Banner".. and quit singing "Just As I am"... Churches didn't want to point out America's sins... like materialism, pride, and greed. Instead, we sang America's praises...

    Only to deny the people what they really needed.. a good ol fashioned dose of the Gospel...

    I have said it before, and it will be the thesis of this week's sermon...

    American people will not be changed by the man behind the desk in the Oval office... but from men behind the holy desks in our churches...

    It is up to us Pastors to stand and preach the truth... NO MATTER WHAT!
    And when people start applying those truths, ageless truths not 30 second soundbites, Americans will change.. and their lives will be saved.

    Obama will not ruin this nation
    McCain will not save this nation

    The future of this country will be decided at the Altars.. not the polling places!
     
  19. Thinkingstuff

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    Manifest Destiny is a good example of this.
     
  20. tinytim

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    How can you be a Baptist? Seperation of Church and state is one of the Baptist distinctives... you cannot be a Baptist and not support Seperation of Church and State...

    People need to get an Church History education...
     

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