The Grace Evangelical Society Is Heretical

A grave problem it is.

 

You cannot reach salvation without first kneeling at the cross.

 

And why does he say "no" ?

So, following your argument, you can say then that when you witness to someone about Christ, and that someone avers or professes that Christ is his Savior and that he or she believes that Christ saved him or her, that person's salvation is not really "there yet" until that person fully understands the life, death, burial and resurrection of Christ and believes them as well as believe that Christ is the Savior and no other ?

Now let's take this same line of thought to the Arminian camp. So there you go, the invitation has been given, and the choir is singing "just as i am" (which by the way means the sinner is to come to Christ and be accepted by Him just as he is with everything he is: sin, guilt, wrong theology, wrong doctrine, wrong practices, falsities, lies, etc), and this sinner comes and sobs and wants to "accept Christ" and he is led into the "witness room" and someone shows him the Roman way and he professes Christ as Savior and prays the sinner's prayer, and when asked if he truly believes he is saved, he says "yes, on this date and time I was saved".

But he doesn't know much about Christ yet !

He doesn't know that he needs to follow Christ into the waters of baptism, he doesn't know about the absolute power of Christ's blood, he doesn't know about His resurrection (he has heard of it, but he doesn't yet really actually believes it, just like some of the apostles).

So, until he understands, then he is to be "patronized" and called a "brother" and do we cross our fingers and hope he gets to understand and believe everything and then and only then can we actually say he is a brother and he is a soul for whom Christ also died ?

So, when were they truly, truly, fully saved, then ? When did the blood of Christ actually become effective for them ? When were their names actually written with indelible, uneraseable attributes in the Lamb's Book of Life ?

Before those things were revealed, (and I suppose, believed) by them, or after ?

If they were actually bought by Christ with His blood, saved, redeemed, and purchased without merits of any shape or form on their part, why then should the same thing not be applicable for God's elect children today ?

Error, yes. But which "saved" ? Romans 10:9 which you quoted refers to Jews who were in doctrinal error (verses 1 and 2). Now, what kind of "saved" is Paul talking about ? Is it eternally "saved", or is it "teachingly" and "doctrinallY" saved.

Apparently, it cannot be the former, because Paul has constantly asserted that salvation is OF the Lord (just as you do), all of grace, not of works (if not of works, then I guess it will not be a strawman to say "not of doctrine or theology" either).

If it is not the former, then it can only be the latter.

And I think that is what Dr. Wilkin is saying.
Christ saved you because HE WANTS TO. Christ saved you because THAT IS THE FATHER'S WILL. Christ saved you because HE LOVED YOU BEFORE YOU LOVED HIM. (Not yelling, just emphasizing. and I believe you agree there is there are Scriptures to back up these emphases).

Doctrine comes later. That is the very purpose of the gospel. To teach correct doctrine. Doctrine does not save you from the fires of hell and the coming wrath of God. Christ is the one who does that, unconditionally, for those whom He loved and whom the Father gave Him.

He sent out His apostles to teach and baptize, not to get souls eternally saved, but to get them saved from error, false theology, false doctrine, paganism, idolatry, witchcraft, and so on.

Now, if having professed Christ, hearing the gospel, and receiving instruction, those whom the apostles (and today's preachers) reach with their limited presence, still insist on their own false practices and teachings and theologies or religions, then we can put a question mark and refuse to fellowship with them.

You yourself said it "coming to faith" in Christ.
What did Christ himself say ?
"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls". Matthew 11:28-29.

 

That is quite the gymnastics there.

 

Well...

I believe that the gospel has to include the facts 1) of sin, 2) of God's judgment of sin, and 3) of "Subsitutionary atonement." (John 16:8-11). How one could leave the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ out of that, I don't know.

And it is just as "bloodless" and "crossless" IMO to tell someone that God will save you because He wants to, not because you want to be saved. In every biblical instance of "blood-for-sin," the sinner identified himself with the SUBSITUTIONARY sacrifice that he offered in place of HIS OWN sin. In most cases, he had to buy the sacrifice himself. Often, if he was too poor to offer one type sacrifice, another was permitted instead to make the substitutionary effect available to "whosoever willed."

As to the Passover lamb --- it was chosen by the priests. It's sacrifice was applicable to all "elect Israel" even though all "the elect/God's chosen people" were not believers. And here's the key, Calvies --- the blood sacrifice only "perfected" those who were "sanctified," Heb 10:14. So who was "sanctified" in the OT? Those who believed on the God of the sacrifice, right? It's BELIEVERS who are "set aside"/sanctified unto the service, the "particular election," of God.

skypair

 

There is no need without the condemnation of sin. There is no Savior without the cross: There is no salvation without the resurrection. The accomplishment of God's son, Jesus Christ, is complete in this matter. The 'theology' for a soul to be saved is simple......

 

They are not heretics. They present the gospel "barebones" as to what is required for salvation: understanding Jesus will save sinners, that they are one, and trusting Him to save them.

That is salvation.

All this theology and understanding and scripture knowledge is for the disciple. That is, for the growing believer.

The unbeliever needs only salvation.

The BELIEVER needs to know the theology, the doctrine, the teachings.

I will stake my life that there will be men in heaven who were told only the barebones of salvation while dying on some battlefield.

 

Well, as long YOU think that they are heretical... then that is plenty good 'nuff for me! :laugh:

 

Exactly!

GES insists the lost man does not have know, understand or believe in the Deity, Cross or Resurrection of Christ, but can still be born again.

Every passage you noted is dimissed or twisted by GES to disarm them because those passages refute the heresy of their Crossless/Deityless Gospel.

Every one who views this thread needs to read an article I wrote about a week ago. If you think what Wilkin wrote is heresy, which it is, just wait until you read, Heresy of the "Crossless" Gospel: Verified & Affirmed!

In that article I provide links to additional articles that further substantiate the egregious errors and heretical views of Hodges, Wilkin & GES. Drop a comment here, or at my blog.


LM

 

Martin:

You are welcome to link to my articles. I want this heresy made known to as wide a cross-section of evangelical circles as possible. Please link to both:

Heresy of the Crossless Gospel: Verified & Affirmed

Is “RE-DEFINED” Free Grace Theology- Free Grace Theology?

I do not want people to think that Hodges, Wilkin, GES speaks for all the folks who identify themselves with the Free Grace movement. That is a serious misnomer.

The GES is a shrinking, but vocal cell in the FG camp.


LM

 

Martin:

Again, I ask, what kind of "saved" ? As I see it, you and yours' reaction to the GES' doctrines may be (note: MAY be) knee-jerk.

Have you ever stopped to think that to say or teach "eternal salvation" requires belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is tantamount to saying that the blood of the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world had no real value until after the gospel was preached and believed in ?

What I am trying to say, and which I think is similar to what the GES is saying, is that eternal salvation had no pre-requisites attached to it. It is entirely the will of God for the individual sinner, it is entirely the work of God for the individual sinner, it was accomplished by Jesus Christ for all His people (all meaning those born before, during, and after His time, both in and out of Israel, in and out of the Holy Land, and even to those in the farthest Gentile lands).
Eternal salvation required nothing, nada, zilch, from the recipients and beneficiaries of this salvation.

HOWEVER, when the gospel reaches the ears of an elect sinner, and the Spirit draws him to Christ thru the preaching of the gospel (which, of course means he is already a living soul, born again, if you will), then that sinner is REQUIRED to repent, he has the responsibility to repent, to turn from his sinful ungodly ways and creed, forsake his idol, and follow his Savior, in order for him to know the benefits of being a forgiven sinner, HERE IN TIME, and in order for him to be justified in his faith in Christ before man.

I blame no one for calling the GES heretical in what they were saying, I am not really fully familiar with all their teachings.

I would perhaps do the same, if I do not carefully distinghuish that the work of Christ for the salvation of His people required absolutely nothing from them, while those claiming Christ to be theirs (already believers as someone else pointed out) are required to present proof of such a salvation thru their faith, obedience, repentance and good work.

 

Salvation

We are saved by grace through faith.

That is why we were chosen in Christ not apart from Him.

Faith is required from us, which this faith is given to us by God through His word. We can walk away from thi9s faith just like the young rich ruler.

It is Jesus Christ that was chosen before the foundation of the world, when we are in Christ we were chosen to.

So God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

I believe in grace, but we are saved by grace through faith.

The oportunity for salvation is for the world and we are messengers of this. We must remain in Jesus to be saved, becasuse He is our only hope.

Who can save us from this body of death praise be to Jesus.

Whosoever believes shall be saved, you were not elected until you were in Christ.

Paul letters is written to a believing church who were in Christ, so yes they were elected before the foundation of the world.

 

It is a rare thing when I can say I agree with Martin -- but common that I disagree with PinoyBaptist!!

 

It is a rare thing when I can say I agree with Martin -- but common that I disagree with PinoyBaptist!!