The grace of God and how it concerns us. IMO

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by percho, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. percho

    percho
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    I would say, life from the dead to die no more, is the gift of God which comes to us, because of the grace through the faith.

    A couple of questions concerning grace. What was the grace of God that brings salvation to men?
    What was the grace of God, of which Paul did not want to frustrate of Gal. 2:21?

    And if Christ be not raised, your faith vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor. 15:17

    That verse states that if Christ has not been given life from the dead there is no salvation. We would still be in our sins. Not only is there no salvation, neither would there be the faith, a noun.

    Gal. 2:21 if anything is by the works of the law, Christ would have died in vain and neither would there be a need for grace, the resurrection.
    It is the resurrection, the grace of God the Father toward the Son, washing of regeneration, that allows his death's blood to wash away our sins. If he be not raised his blood did not wash away our sins.

    The death of Christ and the life also of Christ is imputed to the ungodly through the election of God. Called the righteousness of God.
     
  2. SolaSaint

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    AMEN:thumbs::thumbs:
     
  3. convicted1

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    :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbsup: :thumbs:
     
  4. steaver

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    Amen! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  5. Winman

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    This statement is falsehood. Righteousness is imputed through faith, not election.

    Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
    17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
    18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
    19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
    20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
    21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
    22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
    23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
    24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    You are not imputed righteous because you were elected, if you were imputed righteous, it was because you believed on Jesus Christ.
     
    #5 Winman, Mar 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2014
  6. steaver

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    It is both....."
    O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"
     
  7. percho

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    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    What makes Abraham the father of us all? To be of his faith.

    What was his faith that we must be of in order to be his, Abraham's children?

    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal 3:29

    So Christ was the faith of Abraham.

    It was Abraham's seed to come, Christ, in whom all the nations of the earth would be blessed that was the faith (belief, a noun) of Abraham.

    And in reality that belief, faith did not come until Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, the seed of Abraham gave his life, died and was resurrected (raised) from the dead.

    And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17 Without the resurrection there is no faith. That is when, "the faith," came.

    Gal 3:23 before the faith came they were under the law.
    Gal 3:25 after the faith came they were no longer under the law, but under grace.

    Therefore, of faith, according to grace, the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. Rom 4:17

    The seed of Abraham, the Christ is for whom the promise was made and the first to receive it. Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 18,19 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    (What promise does this seed inherit?)

    Verse 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    Jesus was given life from the dead by God, his Father and that was the promise made through Abraham and was the faith of Abraham.

    The resurrected Jesus the Son of God, the seed of Abraham is:

    The substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

    That is what faith is. Faith is not what you think about something.

    We are not imputed with anything because of what we think about anything.

    We are imputed because of the above faith that came and that imputation is according to the election of grace.
     
  8. JonC

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    At the risk of expressing my ignorance (actually, I don’t mind expressing my ignorance), what do each of you mean by “imputed righteousness”?
     
    #8 JonC, Mar 19, 2014
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  9. percho

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    Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Rom 4:6-8
     
  10. JonC

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    Thank you, Percho, for your reply. Again, please forgive my ignorance of your own position. I am familiar with the passage, but was wondering what you thought the author means by “imputeth righteousness.” Is it positional or is it something that the believer possesses? Is it something that God does “to” man or is it a declaration based on man’s status in Christ? Can Christ’s (or God’s) own moral righteousness be imputed, or is it something else entirely?
     
  11. percho

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    My own thoughts are. The resurrection of Jesus to life again apart from life being in the blood, allowed the blood of Jesus to wash away our sin. Therefore we are justified, made righteous, by the blood of Jesus being justified by the grace of God in raising Jesus from the dead.

    Scriptures:
    Much more then, being now justified by his blood, Romans 5:9
    Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Romans 4:25
    That being justified by his grace, Titus 3:7
    Together, that is being justified by the faith of Christ.
    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal 2:16

    Being given the gift of the Holy Spirit we are looked upon by God the Father as righteous in Christ.
     
  12. JonC

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    Hey Percho,

    I hope all is well. Thank you for your explanation. Personally, I am not sure where I stand on this issue. I’ve always been torn between interpreting this justification as being “made just” and being justified in Christ. When I read Romans (and Galatians, for that matter), I tend to see justification as a declaration of being just in Christ (clothed, so to speak, in His righteousness by virtue of being “in Him”). But on the other hand, the doctrine that I have always been taught leans towards justification as almost (if not) equating to salvation (via Christ’s work on the Cross and the satisfaction of my debt). Anyway, I do appreciate your patience in explaining your understanding.
     
  13. OldRegular

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    No Grace, No Incarnation; No Incarnation, No Cross;
    No Cross, No Resurrection; No Resurrection, No Hope.
     
  14. percho

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    The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Exek 18:20

    For the wages of sin is death; Rom 6:23
    Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:15

    For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Cor 15:3
    For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:6
    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

    Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead,) Gal 1:1

    To whom was the grace of God the Father given? Who should still be dead if he died for our sin? Just what is the wages of sin? Just how is eternal life the gift of God instead of being by righteousness of the law? How is eternal life the gift of God through our Lord Jesus Christ?

    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal 2:21

    God the Father by grace raised Jesus the Son from the dead because of the righteousness of God.

    NO?
     

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