The Great blessing of the biblical teaching of Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Nov 1, 2014.

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  1. Iconoclast

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    I found this fine article on Election on the Founders website. Have you been comforted by this doctrine as so many have been?
    Here are some blessings listed in the article;

    Charles M. Blake

    The doctrine of election is often slandered as the enemy of missions, evangelism and a passionate faith in Jesus Christ. Few things could be further from the truth. In reality, this doctrine is a great motivation to missions and evangelism and it leads to a great love and joy in Christ. In addition, the doctrine of election brings great comfort to the soul of the minister as he preaches the gospel.

    1]First, the doctrine of election assures the preacher of “success.” As the preacher proclaims the great truths of the Scripture and beckons sinners to throw themselves upon the mercy of Christ Jesus, he knows that the elect will respond with faith and repentance.

    2]Second, the doctrine of election causes the preacher to be in awe of God

    3]Third, the doctrine of election brings freedom and joy to the preacher as he carries out his gospel task.

    4]Fourth, the doctrine of election guides the prayers of the preacher

    5]Fifth, the doctrine of election brings a blood-earnestness to the proclamation of the gospel. On the surface, this may not appear to be the case. For many will hear of the doctrine of election and reprobation and say if that is so, then there is nothing to be done. But such reasoning is false, dangerous, damnable, and close to heretical.

    6]Finally, the doctrine of election brings great praise to God.

    :thumbs::applause::thumbs:

    http://founders.org/fj62/preaching-and-the-doctrine-of-election/
     
  2. Iconoclast

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    Here is more from JLDagg on this duty;


    Introduction—Duty of Delighting in the Will and Works of God

    Psalm 37:4—"Delight thyself in the Lord."
    Psalm 90:8—"I delight to do thy will, O my God."
    Psalm 119:47—"I will delight myself in thy commandments."
    Romans 7:22—"I delight in the law of God."
    Psalm 107:22—"Declare his works with rejoicing."


    any one supposes that religion consists merely of self-denial and painful austerities, and that it is filled with gloom and melancholy, to the exclusion of all happiness, he greatly mistakes its true character. False religions, and false views of the true religion, may be liable to this charge; but the religion which has God for its author, and which leads the soul to God, is full of peace and joy.

    It renders us cheerful amidst the trials of life, contented with all the allotments of Divine Providence, happy in the exercises of piety and devotion, and joyful in the hope of an endless felicity. Heaven is near in prospect; and, while on the way to that world of perfect and eternal bliss, we are permitted, in some measure, to anticipate its joys, being, even here, blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph. 1:3).

    We are enabled, not only to pursue our pilgrimage to the good land with content and cheerfulness, but even to "delight ourselves in the Lord" (Ps. 37:4). Our happiness is not merely the absence of grief and pain, but it is positive delight.
    http://www.pbministries.org/Theology/J. L. Dagg/Manual of Theology/bookthird/introduction.htm
     
  3. PreachTony

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    Icon - I'd like to offer a non-Cal response to Mr. Blake's argument.

    It also leaves the preacher in potential positions of great uncertainty, as he must preach the love of God to congregations of people that God may not love. A non-Calvinist preacher also "proclaims the great truths of the Scripture and beckons sinners to throw themselves upon the mercy of Christ Jesus." Show me where scripture says we are "assured" of success. According to what I read, Jesus knew His message would be rejected. He told those carrying the message that, if they were rejected, then shake the dust off your feet and move on. We're supposed to be in this work for God's glory, not for personal gratification based on some human ideal of "success."

    So non-Calvinist preachers are not in awe of God? As someone who has stood in awe of the working of God and the majesty of His power, and as someone who stands as a non-Calvinist, this statement rings hollow to me. I can be just as in awe of God as a Calvinist can. This is a statement applicable to both the Cal and the non-Cal that Mr. Blake appears to write as only applicable to the former.

    Mr. Blake actually writes "Without Election, who would dare preach?" Well, depends on the meaning of "Election." If in the true Calvinist sense, then why preach anyway, as God as already determined who is and isn't His. If in the non-Cal sense (those of us who see scripture say for us to make our "calling and election" sure), then believe me, it's not impossible to preach. I've been preaching from a non-Calvinist point of view for about 13 years. I've had much joy from it, but I've had my fair share of heartache as well.

    Of course, Mr. Blake even writes "when a man believes the Bible and hence the doctrine of election..." So I guess not believing in Calvinist-defined Election means I don't actually believe the Bible. That's good to know.

    Non-Calvinist preachers, believe it or not, likewise pray for the people that they will hear the word and be saved. We don't have to hold to Election doctrine to believe God can and will save people. The non-Calvinist can pray everything that the Calvinist prays, as Mr. Blake writes it, without holding to Calvinist Election. We don't believe in Calvinist Election. We're not exactly wandering lost in the woods, as some Calvinists believe of their non-Cal brethren.

    To Mr. Blake's statement, I point once more to Jesus's words to those He sent out...if a city will not hear you, shake the dust off your feet and move on. If we stand and preach as God has called us to, whether we hold to Calvinist Election or not, we cannot make others believe or reject us. We can only preach the word.

    If it falls my lot to stand and preach the word, all I can do is preach, and if no one is moved to repentance, but I know that I have given all I could give at that time, then I must simply move on. But that requires a level of obedience and commitment from me. People must move as they are led, not because a preacher spoke some stirring words that moved them. Paul said he came in plainness of speech, because that was a much better vehicle for preaching the word. If I deny the opportunity to preach God's word, then am I accountable for failing.

    Here Mr. Blake writes "At the end of the day, the preacher knows that anyone who professed faith under his ministry did not do so because of him. The preacher will not pat himself on the back for the number of people he led to Christ or saw profess faith or that he baptized." The truth is, no preacher, Cal or non-Cal, should be patting himself on the back for the number of people saved in his ministry. This is not a matter of works. To me, my calling to preach is just as important as someone else's call to sit on the bench and pray for the preacher. One requires the other. Everything we do ought to be done to bring "great praise" to God.
     
  4. Iconoclast

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    PreachTony

    Ok...lets look.

    God gave His Son in love for a multitude of sinners who are scattered all over the world. There is nothing uncertain about this at all.
    The Apostles did this...preaching to sinners-

    15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

    The preaching was a general call to all sinners. Nowhere in the preaching in the book of Acts does anyone say to all people....GOD LOVES YOU,
    Christ died for you....
    It is not in Acts at all...Paul does not say...for the love of God is revealed from heaven...He says the wrath of God is revealed.

    PT.....if God does not savingly love everyone....Who are you or anyone else to say that he does, or does not????
    Jeremiah spoke of those who spoke peace peace when there was no peace.

    Jeremiah 6 King James Version (KJV)

    6 O ye children of Benjamin, gather yourselves to flee out of the midst of Jerusalem, and blow the trumpet in Tekoa, and set up a sign of fire in Bethhaccerem: for evil appeareth out of the north, and great destruction.

    2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.

    3 The shepherds with their flocks shall come unto her; they shall pitch their tents against her round about; they shall feed every one in his place.

    4 Prepare ye war against her; arise, and let us go up at noon. Woe unto us! for the day goeth away, for the shadows of the evening are stretched out.

    5 Arise, and let us go by night, and let us destroy her palaces.

    6 For thus hath the Lord of hosts said, Hew ye down trees, and cast a mount against Jerusalem: this is the city to be visited; she is wholly oppression in the midst of her.

    7 As a fountain casteth out her waters, so she casteth out her wickedness: violence and spoil is heard in her; before me continually is grief and wounds.

    8 Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul depart from thee; lest I make thee desolate, a land not inhabited.

    9 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall throughly glean the remnant of Israel as a vine: turn back thine hand as a grapegatherer into the baskets.

    10 To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the Lord is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it.

    11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the Lord; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.

    12 And their houses shall be turned unto others, with their fields and wives together: for I will stretch out my hand upon the inhabitants of the land, saith the Lord.

    13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

    14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
    15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the Lord.

    Election is God's love before time. You do not address Election.
    What is your view of the blessing of election?
     
  5. Iconoclast

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    pt2

    I believe they try to and thankfully many use enough scripture that God can and does use it.I believe non cals leave out major portions of scripture

    ok I will...
    lets read some more;
    14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

    15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
    16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

    17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.


    .
    success is found in faithfulness to all the scripture.....Do you understand this section of scripture?
     
    #5 Iconoclast, Nov 3, 2014
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  6. Iconoclast

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    PT

    This statement shows a complete lack of understanding of the position.

    t

    What do you think Peter was talking about PT? How does someone do what he says?

    Thankfully they are cals when they pray. They ask God to enable the sinner to welcome the word...if they follow their religious philosophy they would pray to the sinner to accept something

    election is a revealed truth and a great blessing. Why would any Christian not gladly welcome this teaching of scripture.

    only if he is inconsistent.

    Then you need to study it some more. There is biblical election...it is for all Christians...whoever moved this to this forum must struggle with the biblical teaching themselves......this is Christian teaching, period.

    until you and others can articulate the teaching without a caricature, until you can speak of covenant redemption instead of light fluff, how can one know who is wandering around and who is standing for the faith once delivered to the saints?

    again ...you do not state the position you claim to disagree with.

    There is a reason election is given as a blessing to the church. If you are not preaching it, or if you are preaching against it...I would question if real preaching is going on at all.
     
    #6 Iconoclast, Nov 3, 2014
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  7. steaver

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    Well, at least they don't leave out and ignore Genesis 3:22.
     
  8. steaver

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    You do understand you must define the Election of which you are speaking? Is it the scriptural interpretation of election or the TULIP one?
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    I cannot take you seriously as you resort to this kind of post.
    :thumbs:If you wish to remain willfully ignorant of truth...go for it.
    Put your big boy pants on and attempt an answer as PT did
     
    #9 Iconoclast, Nov 3, 2014
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  10. GISMYS

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    ALL are chosen and elected that God knows will believe and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. God says He is unwilling that any perish. john 3:16=16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that """whoever""" believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Yes!!! whoever is whoever=any and all.
     
  11. steaver

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    Why? PT gave you correct interpretations and applications yet you reject them. Why should I reiterate?
     
  12. Iconoclast

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    [GISMYS

    The bible does not say this anywhere. No one is said to accept

    Jesus
    No....the bible does not teach that, God is quite willing that many perish.

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


    no...it is everyone believing;
    15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,

    16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

    from the article in the op;
    Concerning election, J. L. Dagg writes, “All who will finally be saved, were chosen to salvation by God the Father, before the foundation of the world, and given to Jesus Christ in the Covenant of Grace.”[4] The elect are a definite number of people chosen by God according to His own free grace. He was not moved by anything in them (seen or foreseen). Only the elect will be saved. But, the elect will be saved.

    Jesus Himself said, “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out” (John 6:37). In His high priestly prayer He said, “I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours” (John 17:9). Clearly, Jesus believed in election and was moved to prayer by it. He was certain that His Father would accomplish all His purposes.
     
    #12 Iconoclast, Nov 3, 2014
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  13. Iconoclast

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    Pt tried a response by making unfounded assertions...he never addresses the op and the blessing of election:wavey:
     
  14. Van

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    Unconditional Election is a Calvinist fiction. The truth found in scripture is we are chosen through faith in the truth. See 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

    Is there a verse that says we were chosen individually before creation? Nope, Ephesians 1:4 says we were chosen in Him, which may mean individually or corporately. Calvinism simply claims it means individually, which is simply adding to scripture. Since several verses say were are chosen individually during our lives, i.e. James 2:5 based on being rich in faith, the Calvinist view is untenable.
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    Van

    Unconditional Election is a Calvinist fiction. The truth found in scripture is we are chosen through faith in the truth. See 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

    Is there a verse that says we were chosen individually before creation? Nope, Ephesians 1:4 says we were chosen in Him, which may mean individually or corporately. Calvinism simply claims it means individually, which is simply adding to scripture. Since several verses say were are chosen individually during our lives, i.e. James 2:5 based on being rich in faith, the Calvinist view is untenable.[/QUOTE]

    13 And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth,

    14 to which He did call you through our good news, to the acquiring of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ;


    http://founders.org/library/boyce1/ch29/
     
    #15 Iconoclast, Nov 3, 2014
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  16. Yeshua1

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    On what bais did God chose us then?

    Because WE made the right decision to receive Jesus?

    Wouldn't that God means to save dependent upon us, and God swore to us though that He will share Hid glory with none?
     
  17. PreachTony

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    Since when is pointing to scripture an "unfounded assertion?" The fact is, Icon, you say that non-Cals "leave out major portions of the scripture," but from the non-Cal point of view, it is the Calvinist who ignores scripture, not by refusing to look at it, but instead by saying scripture does not mean what it plainly says. To the Calvinist, when scripture says "the world" it obviously means "the Elect." When scripture says "whosoever will," it surely means "whosoever that is Elect."

    Steaver hit the nail on the head by asking you if you were referring to Biblical election or TULIP election. Dance around it all you want to, but the fact remains that there is a difference. Although it is a comfortable position to say that those who disagree with you simply haven't studied enough. Both Cal and non-Cal relies on that position without having to further the argument.

    By the by, I don't mind discussing theological issues of doctrine or the meaning of scripture...but I do not take lightly someone calling into question what I try my best to do for the Lord simply because they disagree with my stance on Calvinism. I'm not sorry that when I stand for God I rely on His words and not the creative interpretations of John Calvin or the theo-philosophical writings of John MacArthur, John Piper and Paul Washer. I know what the Bible says. I'm not going to take the Calvinist approach of trying to parse scripture that plainly relates to the whole world down to relating to only a finite number of set-aside individuals. That, to me, is blatantly unscriptural. I cannot address the "blessing of election," as you put it, Icon, because I do not hold to Calvinistic election.
     
    #17 PreachTony, Nov 4, 2014
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  18. Yeshua1

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    In all of these discussions, am mindful of what paul stated, as to if they be preaching Christ as a calvinist or not, rejoice that they are preaching Christ!
     
  19. steaver

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    Amen! :thumbsup:
     
  20. Van

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    Did you notice the addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:13. What does "from the beginning mean." During or after the beginning of something. Not before the beginning of creation. Yet this alteration is conveyed, not in words but in inference. Does "from the beginning" always refer to creation? Nope. So what is not stated is assumed and then the assumption is altered, turning from the beginning into before creation. Fiction folks.
     
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