'The Great Commission' Given To Israel

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    #1 kyredneck, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2014
  2. kyredneck

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    ...and I do know how to spell 'commission'; I've requested that the misspelling be corrected
     
  3. Deacon

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    The witness of the people of Israel is for them to display the LORD's power (justice/judgment) as well as his grace to the peoples of the world

    “And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”” (Genesis 12:2–3, ESV)

    ““I am the LORD; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness.” (Isaiah 42:6–7, ESV)


    Our witness as Christians is to do the same, telling forth the good news that Jesus provided a way for all people to know him.

    Rob
     
  4. kyredneck

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    Ok, I can go along with that; they did indeed serve that purpose, but it was God that was displaying His power and grace towards Israel.

    Ok. Spoken to Abraham and totally fulfilled through his seed, Jesus Christ.

    But no 'great commission' to Israel to evangelize the nations.

    This is speaking of Christ, not Israel.

    No 'great commission' to Israel to evangelize the nations here either.
     
    #4 kyredneck, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2014
  5. kyredneck

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    and he said unto them, Ye yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to join himself or come unto one of another nation; and yet unto me hath God showed that I should not call any man common or unclean: Acts 10:28

    1 Now the apostles and the brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
    2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
    3 saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them. Acts 11

    Care to share your thoughts on these?
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    wasn't isreal to be the light unto the gentile nations, that would have them seek the LORD of the jewish peoples though?

    As in Isaiah 40-55?
     
  7. kyredneck

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    Pinpoint the passages where the command is given to Israel to evangelize the nations.
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    (Isaiah 60:1-3 KJV) Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. {2} For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. {3} And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
     
  9. kyredneck

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    That's all prophetic Yesh, and it concerns the Zion above, the Redeemer, the new covenant (read 59), not Israel after the flesh of the old covenant.

    You're grasping at straws here. If Israel were to spread the gospel of Moses to all the nations, the command should have been given in the Torah, don't you think?
     
  10. Deacon

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    Sorry, I'm on vacation and internet access is spotty in Northern Maine.

    IMO, those particular passages deal with a separate issue, the separation from the resident Canaanite population's pagan practices.

    Witnessing or evangelizing is a separate issue.

    Part of the problem is you are applying a NT Greek term in an OT period. In the OT "good news" or "evangelize" is only used in a secular sense.

    The people of Israel weren’t asked to 'evangelize' but they were to be witnesses to their neighbors.

    Jesus used the passage in Isaiah in a way the Jews of the time would not have imagined – a Christocentric way.

    “Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 10:19, ESV)

    “You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:34, ESV)

    Jesus expounded upon this when asked about the most important commandment.
    In a first century Jew's eyes, the Samaritan's were a despised people, considered almost sub-human.

    The story of the 'good' Samaritan articulated what it means to be neighborly.

    It was more than respect, more than simple kindness; it was about caring for someone like the Lord cared for us – a grace beyond understanding.

    To tell his Jewish audience that neighbors were any stranger in need and then have a Samaritan perform the neighborly act was like a slap in the face.

    The Jews were to be a witness to the nations.

    This is ultimately carried out through the message offered in the good news of Jesus Christ.

    Rob
     
  11. Yeshua1

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    No, that is the Mandate of the Church, while Israel was to so live for God that his blessings on them would be seen by even the heathen pagans/gentiles, and would led them to israel to hear of their God!

    Different type of witnessing...
     
  12. Iconoclast

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    Good thread.....hope to jump in later on.....
     
  13. Greektim

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    I'm going to copy and paste a bit here from another thread.

    Beforehand, let me say I don't see Israel accomplishing her mission to bless the nations the same way the church is to do so. That in part is primarily b/c where Israel failed, Jesus as the new Israel, the new Adam was successful. And we are united to him thus composing part of that new Israel and new Adam. Therefore, eschatologically relevant commands like "be fruitful and multiply" are fulfilled by the new humanity through evangelism. As we preach the gospel and new people take on the image of Jesus who is the true image of God (new Adam), we are fulfilling the Adamic comission.

    Israel I believe had this mission and yet failed. But the process to success was different. They were to be the new humanity, the new nation, that would bring about the blessing to all other nations. But they rebelled and violated their covenant pact w/ YHWH.

    There are a lot of biblical theological motifs at play here. But I think they all intertwine quite beautifully.

    I think Exo 19:5-6 is the most informative on Israel's mission. As God's special elect nation (out of all the nations I chose you), you will be my kingdom of priests (this is mission in that the duty of a priest is to represent people to God). That means your job is to bring the nations into my presence which is exclusively with you in the promised land just as it was with Adam and Eve in Eden. The nations will do this, they will come to you (Israel), if you are a holy/distinct/separate nation. Just as the people come to the priests at the temple, the nations will come to you as you bring them into my presence.

    Here is an illustration of what mission success looks like:
    Zec 8:22 Many peoples and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD.
    Zec 8:23 Thus says the LORD of hosts: In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew, saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'"

    In Israel's history, it only happened once or twice: w/ Rahab, Ruth, and the Queen of Sheba (all women btw). That is the typological/christological point of Matt 12:42, "The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here." At this point, Solomon's ministry was as its climax of effectiveness. There was a temple/house for God. Israel was a light to the nations drawing them to the presence of God. And what happens next in the Solomon narrative? He screws it all up.

    Perhaps the most informative and influential book on this kind of thinking is Christopher Wrights Mission of God along with a lot of G. K. Beale's biblical theology stuff such as temple studies and his NT biblical theology. Also N. T. Wright's Climax of the Covenant (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0800628276/?tag=baptis04-20).
     
    #13 Greektim, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2014
  14. Iconoclast

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    good verse* though it does not answer the topic directly I think it speaks to it I will try to tie it in later
     
  15. kyredneck

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    No hurry. No problem.

    I disagree, it is exactly the issue. The whole notion of going to the Gentiles was a 'brand new thang' to them, it was something that had never been done before:

    And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life. Acts 11:18

    This was an astounding revelation to them, just as it was with Peter:

    34 And Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
    35 but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him. Acts 10

    It's like Peter is saying, Blow me down! God really does have sheep other than the fold of us Jews! The Spirit went out of His way to reveal to Peter three times over (the number of revelation) that it was OK to go to the Gentiles.

    For those of you who actually think outside of the box and meditate on scripture, this should cause you to ponder exactly what the eleven understood Christ to be telling them in Mt 28:19-20. Apparently, up until Acts 10 & 11 they were still following His guidelines given in Mt 10:5.6:

    "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    Actually Rob, I was being a wee bit facetious with the phrase ‘gospel of Moses’; if you think about it, there is absolutely no ‘good news’ contained in the ‘ministration of condemnation and death’ [2 Cor 3].

    In fact, Christ had no good thing to say about their proselyting:

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he is become so, ye make him twofold more a son of hell than yourselves. Mt 23:15

    If this is true, then they really did fail. Somewhere along the way they lost sight of that.

    Yes, they were indeed to accommodate the sojourner and those Gentiles that desired to join them, this is what the court of the Gentiles in the temple was all about. But this is not a command to go spread ‘the gospel of condemnation’.

    The good Samaritan personifies those who, “in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him., ‘the sheep of the other fold’, with the work of the law written in their hearts. The man acted out of compassion, he did by nature the things of the law because he had it written in his heart. IOW, he was regenerate.

    Well, Ro 2:24 indicates that they didn’t do such a good job at that:

    "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, even as it is written."

    Israel after the flesh are still enemies to the gospel of Christ; they are not carrying the message to this day..
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    Think the basic pemise is that Israel was to be the magnet drawing the pagans/gentiles to her God, so that witness was a bit different thn the Church going out unto them!

    But both were still to be a light/testimony for others to take notice of...
     
  17. kyredneck

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    Actually I totally agree with what you're saying here. I think you are right. And the Jews, because of their wisdom and superior quality of life derived from the oracles of God and following the One God and avoiding all the entrapments of the worship of idols did indeed have immense influence over the affairs of the nations. Josephus, the Bible, and other historians attest to that fact. And they still do that, have great influence in the secular realm that is.
     
  18. preachinjesus

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    This is an intriguing conversation no doubt. Perhaps more so since there is no evidence of a command to baptism in the Old Testament nor any indications of a missionary effort within either Old Testament or Judaism. Just a couple of thoughts.
     
  19. Deacon

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    double post
     
  20. Deacon

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    Interesting choice of words:

    For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “ ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”” (Acts 13:47, ESV)

    Who would be the 'us" in the quote of the OT?

    Rob
     

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