1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Heart of Fallen Man

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by The Biblicist, Jan 18, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    Skandelon, Van and Winman must reject the true nature of sin in order to defend their position of Arminianism. If they admit that the heart of fallen man, which exists in the infant coming into the world, is sinful by nature - meaning - it is void of the right motive behind all of its choices, whether it be thoughts, words or deeds, that are the focus of choice, and that sin in its root essence is coming short of the glory of God in all it chooses to think, say and do (1 Cor. 10:31/Rm. 3:23) then total inability and total depravity from birth is a given.
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    28
    Hence, God gives them a new heart to come to Him in believing faith. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs:
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I have never denied the texts above as pertaining to the sinful nature - the natural birth etc.

    Rather I deny that the "enmity between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman" in Gen 3 is pointless and powerless to reach the lost in their lost state.

    I deny that the "Drawing of all mankind to God" John 12 is pointless and powerless to reach the lost in their lost condition just as they are. I deny that it can only reach the already born-again saved saint. I claim that God is able to 'enable' the lost to choose the Gospel - in the lost natural state - because God is doing a supernatural work in that "Drawing".

    I deny that the "Convicting of the World of sin and righteousness and judgment" is pointless and powerless to reach the lost -- in their lost condition just as they are.

    Note that a couple of those that you named in your list do not claim to be Arminian but rather "non-Cals". I am one of those claiming to be Arminian.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    Classic example of Calvinist misdirection. Yes, Jhn 6:44 says no man can come to Jesus unless he is drawn. But the very next verse shows exactly how God draws a man, with his word.

    Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    Jesus explains exactly what he meant in verse 44 when he said no man can come to him unless the Father draws him. Jesus explains that "every man" that has heard, and learned from the Father comes to him.

    So, man's inabililty is due to ignorance of God, he must be taught to come to Jesus. There is not one word here about regeneration being necessary for a man to come.

    Paul reinforces this in Romans 10:14;

    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    There is no other verse in all of scripture that so directly addresses what man needs to believe in Jesus. Did Paul say the man needs to be regenerated to believe? NOPE, not one word here or anywhere in scripture to that effect.

    No, Paul simply implies that ALL that is necessary for a man to believe is that he hear the gospel. This alone enables any man to trust in Jesus if he so chooses to do so.

    So yes, man is born with a kind of inability to believe on Jesus, it is called ignorance. No man can possibly believe what he has never heard and does not know. This is the ONLY inability for man shown in scripture.

    Many men are ignorant of this scriptural fact and teach falsehood. Many HERE.
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    There is no "but" as there is no need for "except" unless he is teaching universal inability. The fact he says "except" proves he is declaring universal inability.
     
  6. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes, and then he clarifies what that inability is, lack of knowledge or ignorance, not an inability to believe the gospel that you and others falsely teach.

    And nowhere do the scriptures teach that a man must be regenerated to have the ability to believe, but imply only that a man must hear the gospel, and this alone enables him to believe on Jesus.
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    16,008
    Likes Received:
    481
    Regardless of what it is, you have conceded it is - universal inability. I will discuss the nature of what it is in another thread but you have conceded it is.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    man , even whill in a fallen, sinful state before God, still can do good acts and deeds, but that NONE of those qualify a sinner to be right befotre God, as NONE could ever keep the law well enough, from the heart, as God meant it, save for Jesus!

    And sinners will not come tio jesus on their own accord to get saved, but will create/make up another gospel and god, and try toearn salvation thru their own efforts, wordhipping another god, another gospel!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...