The Heresy of Indifference

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Reformed, Apr 18, 2015.

  1. Reformed

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    Burk Parsons wrote a thought provoking intro for the May 2015 edition of Tabletalk Magazine:

    In my Christian experience I have heard things like, "I don't want to know doctrine. I just want to know Jesus." The irony is that a person who says that is actually espousing doctrine! None of us can avoid doctrine. We may act indifferently to doctrine, but once again, that indifference is actually a doctrine; a teaching or a belief. The Scripture commands us to, "study to show yourself approved unto God" (2 Tim. 2:15). In other words, we are commanded to study doctrine.
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

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    So I repeatedly get tirated to go to church ....so if you can't find a good Baptist church, find something close, so there is a PCA in Roxbury NJ I go visit....only this eh, Pastor informs me that there will be no doctrine taught in his church....and I'm not to bring it up nor discuss it with anyone in the church or else I would be labeled persona non grata. Of course Easter egg hunts & pumpkin carving are just all right by them. So would extra biblical activities be considered still another doctrine?
     
  3. Tom Bryant

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    Good statement! You cannot really know and understand who Jesus is without doctrine.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Are there competing doctrines?
     
  5. Tom Bryant

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    Of course, there are. Even incorrect doctrine is a doctrine. As Reformed said:
    But even among those passionate about doctrine, there are differences among Bible believers.
     
  6. Reformed

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    The individual I quoted in the OP, Burk Parsons, is a man that I have real and substantial disagreement with over doctrine. Burk believes in Presbyterian ecclesiology and infant baptism; two doctrines that I believe are wrong. But when I look at someone like Burk, I have to look at the totality of what he believes. His theology is generally sound, notwithstanding those areas in which he and I disagree. If providence did not allow me to attend another church, I could attend and put myself under his teaching.

    But the point of the OP is not to dissect another; rather it is to remind each one of us that doctrine matters. We should seek to study and understand doctrine in our own life and encourage others to do the same. While differences will always remain between individuals and churches, we must strive to overcome them where possible. Unfortunately some differences are so pronounced that we must separate for conscience sake. That is why we have so many denominations.
     
  7. Van

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    Threads without definition of terms breed conflict. I am reminded of the old chestnut, I am intolerant of intolerance.

    When we say doctrine, we should be referring to specific teachings of scripture. To call a godless world view a doctrine is not helpful. We all have our belief system, whether close to the mark or way off track.

    We are to trust in Jesus both as the Messiah sent by God, and as God the Son. And the test of our faith is in how we love one another. Recall how the goats were separated, not because they were premillennials or Calvinists, but because they did not act on Christ's words.
     
    #7 Van, Apr 18, 2015
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  8. Tom Bryant

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    I did not think it was to dissect each other. I was merely responding to what EW&F wrote.

    I know you and I have differences in theology, but I know you believe the Bible to be God's Word and use it to determine what you believe is Biblical doctrine. I would hope you would accept that I too believe the Bible to be the Word of God and the final word in what I believe.
     
  9. Reformed

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    Tom, please forgive me. I did not intend that last post as a criticism. I was merely expanding on your comments.
     
  10. Reformed

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    To the degree that we both actually do use the Bible to determine what we believe is biblical doctrine, we place ourselves in a different category than what is common on this board. Instead of personality arguments, ad hominem, or personal attacks, we seek to understand biblical truth. Lest we romance that a bit too much, there will still be disagreement. Sometimes that disagreement will be strong. The quest for truth is never easy and not without sparks. The hard part, but the part we must strive to preserve, is not to wound our brother just for the sake of wounding. Sometimes it is unavoidable because the topic is too near to our heart. But we should never seek to wound on purpose.
     
  11. Darrell C

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    I don't think there is an issue man is involved with that doesn't center on doctrine. It is amazing to think that it is avoided, and incredible that those in leadership do not stress the importance.

    Great statement.

    God bless.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

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    So would you consider churches w/o doctine apostate?
     
  13. Reformed

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    Every church has doctrine. It is the type of doctrine that should be the topic of discussion.
     
  14. Darrell C

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    The simple truth is that there is no such thing as a "church without doctrine."

    All "churches," or assemblies, or fellowships...come into being due to shared interest, doctrine, and goal. As the article stated, which is very true...



    It's kind of like the term "Non-Denominational" is in fact a denomination.

    But to answer your question, yes. Because Christian Doctrine is heavily focused upon, both implicit as well as explicit. Christians are commanded to seek God, and the best provision for understanding God is in fact the revelation of Himself He has given us in His Word. The above mentality (in the article) would be like saying, "I am pacifist so don't mess with me or I will throttle you."

    One cannot be a Christian, period, apart from the knowledge of the truth. The Gospel centers on specific Doctrine and we determine not apostasy, but heresy through Doctrine. There are only two doctrines in the world available to men, Biblical Doctrine, and the doctrines of men.

    But nobody can say doctrine is absent from their views. Atheists often get upset with me when I mention Atheist Doctrine, which is one of the parallels of Atheism with all other religions. Atheists prophets like Bill Maher may deny Atheism as a religion having doctrine by asking the question, "If atheism is a religion, does that mean that bald is a hair-do?"

    Very humorous, but a ploy to distract people from the truth, which is that Atheism has doctrine as well. They seek, like those implied in the article, to present a platform of unbiased neutrality, but that is not the case. For example, there is no neutral condition in regards to God, because in order for one to be neutral they must lack knowledge, and the term atheist not only implies but demands knowledge of God, by which we might say the only true atheist in the world might be an infant who has not received the knowledge of God in a capacity by which they might determine their doctrine in regards to Him.

    And not just apostate, but hostile to Christianity's purpose. God has always sought to educate men for their own good. First in regards to knowledge concerning Himself, and secondly in regards to our own selves. Understanding our condition drives us to reliance in God. Denial of that condition forces self reliance which unfortunately people have deceived themselves into thinking they possess.

    God bless.
     
  15. Tom Bryant

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    Absolutely!
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    You must mean like that thread you started that was shut down for that very reason.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Well then....and with all due respect, I have visited with 3 churches who will NOT teach doctrine and forbade me from even bringing it up. Then there is one that insistsyou must be in full accord or else leave the premises.
     
  18. Reformed

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    I do not know what to tell you. This problem seems to be unique to you.
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

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    You mean the area in which I live don't you? You should really take the opportunity to study the area....maybe do a paper on it. Being a Jersey boy and all....you may have just found the religious void.....maybe even the rip that causes steady state secularism. Think of it...what a find. :)

    But if you really know Jersey, you'd know it's on the balls of its arse...economically, politically, socially everything. So who is minding the store of for the souls of its residents......want to know the answer???? CHRIS CHRISTY.....Ha ha ha ha ha.
     
    #19 Earth Wind and Fire, Apr 18, 2015
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  20. Reformed

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    No. I mean it is unique to you. Based on previous conversations with you, you have an endless list of reasons as to why you cannot find a suitable church in North Jersey. There is no such thing as a perfect church. The best you can do is find a church that is as accurate as possible when it comes to doctrine. I live in an area that is similar to North Jersey. My church is a Reformed Baptist church, but the majority of churches in the area are mainline Baptist. I disagree with their eschatology and much of their soteriology. If my church did not exist I would find the best possible alternative and attend. My conscience may not allow me to join, but I would faithfully attend. The fellowship of other believers is essential to my spiritual well-being.
     
    #20 Reformed, Apr 18, 2015
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