The hidden danger of legalism

stilllearning · Sep 11, 2008

Hi everyone

I hate to interrupt such a nice discussion, but here are my 2 cents.....

This word is found 5 times, and all 5 times it is talking about the priests garments.
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And the way I understand Strong’s, this is talking about “underwear”.

Exodus 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:

Exodus 39:28 And a mitre of fine linen, and goodly bonnets of fine linen, and linen breeches of fine twined linen,

Leviticus 6:10 And the priest shall put on his linen garment, and his linen breeches shall he put upon his flesh, and take up the ashes which the fire hath consumed with the burnt offering on the altar, and he shall put them beside the altar.

Leviticus 16:4 He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.

Ezekiel 44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
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Mexdeaf · Sep 12, 2008

Salamander said:

Thought the following would "fit" in this discussion:

"
"And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart." Proverbs 7:10
In Proverbs 7, Solomon is warning his son about the dangers of sexual immorality. This wise and concerned father is telling his son that sin is all around, and that he must recognize it when he sees it.
One of the things he warned his son about was women dressed in the attire of an harlot. Strangely enough, it doesn't say she was a harlot, though it's obvious by her actions that she was. The interesting thing is she is described by her attire; her clothing.
One of the things that bother me as a preacher is the fact that many times I get accused of being judgmental and casting judgment on people without really knowing them or knowing all the facts. Here we see Solomon, undoubtedly the wisest man that ever lived, is judging a woman by her clothing, by looking out of his window in the dark of night! Furthermore, he's teaching his son to judge them by their clothing! Wrong? No! It is wisdom!
In my effort to convey the truth without giving anybody a reason to judge me for judging others, I'm going to do something that is perfectly fair and sensible. Instead of trying to figure out what this harlot was wearing, I'm going to turn it around. We are going to play a game of elimination in order to show what a good, godly woman should wear. The way we will do this is simple. We will try to determine what the harlot in Proverbs 7 WAS NOT wearing!
I know, many will say that I have no idea what I am talking about because we don't know for sure what harlots wore in those days. That's fine. I agree. That's why I'm going to make an application to the day and age in which we live and make this modern and practical. Everybody agrees I'm sure that the Word of God applies today, and that it's teachings and warnings should be heeded. So in saying that, let's make a couple of safe assumptions.
Assumption 1: We have harlots today. Assumption 2: Harlots wear clothes. Assumption 3: Harlots wear wrong clothes. Assumption 4: Christians should not.
How are we doing so far? In order to accurately judge what a godly, Christian woman should wear, let's examine Scripture. As I'm sure you do, I believe the Bible is the Final Authority for ALL matters of faith and practice. (That would even include our wardrobe.)
So, what did that harlot in Proverbs 7 have on? One thing we know she wasn't wearing. She wasn't wearing clothing that was modest. We can safely assume that. You see, harlotry has often been called the oldest profession in the world. That may very well be true. It certainly is not new.
Women thousands of years ago learned one simple fact. Men are affected by what they see. Men respond to what they see. The Bible has a lot to say about men's eyes. Notice this verse. Proverbs 27:20 "Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied."
What about this one? Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
So you see, men are affected by what they see. Now, according to Proverbs 7:7, this young man was clearly not the sharpest kid on the block. It says: "And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding." But one thing about this guy was working perfectly normal. His eyes were fine.
Modest clothing is commanded in the word of God for godly, Christian women. It says: 1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety;..." Needless to say, the harlot in Proverbs 7 DID NOT have on modest apparel. She was dressed in a way that even in the dark of night (Bible says in the preceding verse: "In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night, she could be seen and seduce this young man.
We don't know what she was wearing, but we do know what she wasn't wearing! She wasn't wearing modest apparel.
What is modest apparel? Does anybody know? Are there any clues? Absolutely! The Greek word for 'modest apparel' in this verse is katastole (pronounced kat-as-tol-ay'). It means: a lowering, letting down; a garment let down, dress, attire - Bible Greek Lexicon
Now I don't profess to be a Greek scholar, or even a Bible scholar for that matter. However, I think it's pretty clear what women are supposed to wear according to these verses; long, loose, modest dresses.
You might say, well, how long is long? Who's to say something is long or short? That's an excellent point. That's why we must refer to our Bible for that answer. Let's see what God says.
Isaiah 47:1-3 "Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, ... O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate. ... uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers. Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man."

We can see from these verses that God considers a woman uncovering her leg or her thigh to be 'nakedness'. I think we must agree that God's description of 'modest apparel' in the Bible would have to mean that whatever it is a woman wears, it must be long and cover her legs.
Having said that, we can safely conclude that the harlot in Proverbs 7 did not have on a long skirt or a long, loose flowing dress. As we said earlier, we cannot conceive the fact that if she did, Solomon would have described her as a woman dressed in the attire of an harlot.
One thing is very clear to me, as a man and as a preacher of the Gospel. Too many women and girls today are wearing the attire of an harlot. They are dressing themselves in a fashion that causes men to lust after them. They dress in a way that draws attention to their bodies. God is not pleased with that!
Dear sister in the Lord, do yourself a favor. Drive through the streets of your city late at night and look at the women standing on the street corners. Look at what they are wearing. Look at how they dress themselves. Notice what they picked out while they were shopping for clothing. Notice what they knew lustful, wicked men would be attracted to. Observe what they realized would appeal to their wicked, sinful desires. Their wardrobe includes shorts, mini-skirts, low blouses, sleeveless shirts, tight clothing, blue jeans, pants and other sinful attire. Nothing godly.
Now go home, look in your closet. What do you see? Do you see anything that even closely resembles what those women were wearing? Do you have clothing in your house that reveals your legs? Do you have skirts or dresses that are not long enough to fit the description of modest apparel? Do you by any chance have any clothing that would be too tight, too see-through, too clingy, too masculine to be worn by a godly, chaste, virtuous lady?
If so, you need to throw it out. You need to ask God to forgive you for wearing the attire of an harlot. You need to realize the awfulness of allowing the unbelievers and Hollywood and the harlots and lesbians of this world to influence your wardrobe.
Is your clothing modest? Is it feminine? Is it ladylike? Is it loose, flowing, and long? Is it a dress? God forbid that any born-again lady dress herself in the attire of an harlot.
If you have never been saved, please contact me. I'd be delighted to send you more information about what Jesus did for you and His free gift of salvation. "

Comments?
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Poppycock and balderdash. This guy has twisted Scripture to fit his own preconceived notions of how women should dress. He even admits as much by saying, "Now I don't profess to be a Greek scholar, or even a Bible scholar for that matter." He certainly isn't.

By the way, it is wrong to post another person's words without giving credit to them.

EdSutton · Sep 12, 2008

Mexdeaf said:

Poppycock and balderdash. This guy has twisted Scripture to fit his own preconceived notions of how women should dress. He even admits as much by saying, "Now I don't profess to be a Greek scholar, or even a Bible scholar for that matter." He certainly isn't.
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Aw, C'mon! Don't tiptoe around so much.

Tell us how you really feel about this.

By the way, it is wrong to post another person's words without giving credit to them.
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On this, and with this, I fully agree, as also does the Baptist Board, I believe, according to the User Agreement, which all of us have agreed to, and which Baptist Board User Agreement includes posting in accordance with the copyright laws of the US.

Incidentally, I do happen to know that the referenced quote is, in fact, copyrighted.

Ed

Salamander · Sep 12, 2008

And in fact you weren't so lazy not to google it and find out who it is that said it.

I used quotation marks to show I HAD IN NO WAY ! plaigerized.

If I violated the BB rules
TURN ME IN!:laugh:

I can make corrections but i find that neither of you are moderators and will not bow down to your diatribes.:wavey:

Salamander · Sep 12, 2008

Mexdeaf said:

Poppycock and balderdash. This guy has twisted Scripture to fit his own preconceived notions of how women should dress. He even admits as much by saying, "Now I don't profess to be a Greek scholar, or even a Bible scholar for that matter." He certainly isn't.

By the way, it is wrong to post another person's words without giving credit to them.
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He is not a scholar but he sure loaded your wagon for you to respond to perfect reasoning like this.:laugh:

So tell me, how is it a harlot dresses and then make comparison to the styles of today without making any direct likenesses? You can't for the MOST part.

It is the motive of the harlot to present herself in a lustful manner. It is commonplace for the modern woman to present herself in the SAME manner. And to think you would accuse some one of twisting Scripture to point out the emphatic and obvious TRUTH!:tonofbricks:

Salamander · Sep 12, 2008

EdSutton said:

Aw, C'mon! Don't tiptoe around so much.

Tell us how you really feel about this. On this, and with this, I fully agree, as also does the Baptist Board, I believe, according to the User Agreement, which all of us have agreed to, and which Baptist Board User Agreement includes posting in accordance with the copyright laws of the US.

Incidentally, I do happen to know that the referenced quote is, in fact, copyrighted.

Ed
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Yeah, and aso far I've made about $ 10932.00 on it! .
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Well, in Monopoly money that is.:laugh:

Brother Stacey got a problem with ME using his copyrighted material?
Please contact him and tell on me, PLEASE?

Salamander · Sep 12, 2008

Mexdeaf said:

Poppycock and balderdash. This guy has twisted Scripture to fit his own preconceived notions of how women should dress. He even admits as much by saying, "Now I don't profess to be a Greek scholar, or even a Bible scholar for that matter." He certainly isn't.

By the way, it is wrong to post another person's words without giving credit to them.
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Poppycock:
Main Entry: pop·py·cock Pronunciation: \ˈpä-pē-ˌkäk\ Function: noun Etymology: Dutch dialect pappekak, literally, soft dung, from Dutch pap pap + kak dung Date: 1865
Balderdash: An oft used strategy to elect your own fake definition in an attempt to give it credibility in the minds of your fellow players.

Mexdeaf · Sep 12, 2008

Salamander said:

And in fact you weren't so lazy not to google it and find out who it is that said it.

I used quotation marks to show I HAD IN NO WAY ! plaigerized.

If I violated the BB rules
TURN ME IN!:laugh:

I can make corrections but i find that neither of you are moderators and will not bow down to your diatribes.:wavey:
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From the BB user agreement: ""[SIZE=-1]You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by BaptistBoard.com. We will delete posts that contain copyrighted material not owned by you unless you have permission to post them there."

In the light of that I believe that you should remove the "harlot" post. If you do not voluntarily do so by tomorrow morning (9/13/08) I shall report it as being in violation of BB posting rules.

I find the words of the "harlot" post offensive. No man, "preacher" or not, is going to call my wife (or any other woman for that matter) a "harlot" in my presence just because she does not dress to his tastes.

Yes, that post hit a nerve. I am fed up with preachers who preach down to people, who try to browbeat people into fitting their mold.
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Salamander · Sep 12, 2008

Mexdeaf said:

From the BB user agreement: ""[SIZE=-1]You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by BaptistBoard.com. We will delete posts that contain copyrighted material not owned by you unless you have permission to post them there."

In the light of that I believe that you should remove the "harlot" post. If you do not voluntarily do so by tomorrow morning (9/13/08) I shall report it as being in violation of BB posting rules.

I find the words of the "harlot" post offensive. No man, "preacher" or not, is going to call my wife (or any other woman for that matter) a "harlot" in my presence just because she does not dress to his tastes.

Yes, that post hit a nerve. I am fed up with preachers who preach down to people, who try to browbeat people into fitting their mold.
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Regardless, I have Brother Stacey's permission.

Also, I see not anywhere in any place has he or I addressed your wife.

I don't even see where any particular woman is addressed other than what the Bible says about the harlot.

[personal attack deleted]
No one has ever brow beaten anyone as far as I or Brother Stacey is concerned on this example.

Obviously you are feeding from something other than what we are responsible for offering.

You may contact him at :

Pleasant View Baptist Church Pastor Stacey Shiflett

110 Old Rutherford Road Taylors, South Carolina 26687
864-877-8061 M. Stacey Shiflett, Pastor \n

This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

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You would not be the first to deny this passage he dealt with, many professing Christians do it everyday in their apparel. They want the name, but they will wear their own apparel.

You get in touch with Brother Shiflett, have him come on here and contact me openly, and we will both address you in a Christian manner and we won't make any threats against you or set any timelines to carry out those threats.

Women dressing to the "tastes" of lustful men act just as the harlot does in her apparel. You seem to act as if a woman has the right to dress in a sexually provative manner and have absolutely no responsibility for the attention she invites. That goes against ALL reason and constitutes the very basis of all REBELLION!

I'm sure the woman you married is quite a lady, she must be to put up with you!:laugh:

My wife is a lady on that regard as well. So don't even think for a minute I am putting anyone down but myself!

I asked for comments on the post, not vehement remarks in objection. Anyone following this thread can see its origin and authorship.

BTW, this material has no copyright.

NaasPreacher (C4K) · Sep 12, 2008

Thread closed.

The hidden danger of legalism

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