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The hidden dangers of Calvinism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by stilllearning, Nov 16, 2008.

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  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    It teaches that the non-elect reject Christ. So both sides are covered. There is no dilemma here.

    Where is this? Hopefully you can tell me. I have asked for years for people to show me this verse, but so far, no one has been able to demonstrate this from Scripture. So please, tell me where the Bible teaches that those who choose Christ become elect.

    That's not what Romans 9 says. It says that the choice was made before the twins before, before they had done good or bad. If you disagree, then you are disagreeing with God.
     
  2. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    What does "acrid abuse of Arminians" have to do with this thread? Isn't the OP an acrid abuse of Calvinists, or did I miss something?
     
  3. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Is this thread about Spurgeon's battles with hyper calvinists? How about speaking to the topic?
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Hi J.D. Yeah,Jerome is confusing Hyper-Calvinism with Calvinism proper.Spurgeon in his quotes is dealing with H-C'ism .

    Jerome,if you wish to start yet another thread on hyper-Calvinism be my guest.But to lump it in with Calvinism is not right.Besides,Spurgeon was an ardent Calvinist.It would be impossible to try and deconstruct Calvinism using Spurgeon's quotes.Nevertheless some have tried to this day.
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Your list is really six items;not seven.You repeated #1.

    I don't have the time now to devote to the rest of your post.But I will get to it later.

    1)You need to define "religious persecution"
    2)Your charge is completely baseless.
    3)True.But it's not a heresy.
    4)True.But it's not a heresy.
    5)True.But it's not a heresy.
    6)False.But you have a lot of company in believing that.

    You have not fared so well.From what source have you copied and pasted?

    Arminians don't like to be called Arminians.However,Calvinists don't mind being called Calvinists despite the baggage with which many assail them for that term.
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    All Scripture From TNIV, Except Where Noted

    No.You are wrong in the extreme.Calvinism is quite biblical.It would not appeal to those with itching ears.

    BTW,Calvinism does not consist of a singular doctrine.We believe in the full spectrum or full counsel of the Word of God -- it's comprehensive in fact.

    I'd venture to say this : Instead of denouncing things which you have been ill-informed --why not actually read one of the works of a Calvinist past or present?You might be surprised with how much you actually agree.But then you'd have to acknowledge that you've been terribly wrong in the past about the subject.That's the only downside to it.

    Again you evidence a paucity of true knowledge regarding Church History.John Calvin was late on the scene.The doctrines with which Calvinists hold were evident in the works of :Augustine,Bede,Gottschalk,Wycliffe,John Huss,Martin Bucer and many others.It makes one think?Doesn't it?


    God is just a heavenly seismologist?!Get biblical.The Lord knows because He determines.He doesn't just have advance knowledge of the future.That's a wretched philosophy --not at all derived from Scripture."The Lord knows those who are his" according to 2 Tim.2:19.

    Jesus said :"I am the good shepherd;I know my sheep and my sheep know me --just as the Father knows me and I know the Father --and I lay down my life for the sheep."(John 10;14,15).

    Look at 1 Peter 1:2 :"who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father..."

    Romans 8:29 doesn't have anything to do with God seeing someone having faith in Him,or good deeds or anything.Whosoever will?No one.That's why God intercedes for His own and saves those who has chosen before the creation of the world.

    In 2 Timothy 1:9 it says :"who has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time."

    Because of His decree is the reason an individual is saved.Someone's faith doesn't trigger foreknowledge,because foreknowledge is before predestination and one's faith is the result of predestination.You really need to prayfully meditate over Acts 13:48.

    Election is never used with respect to the reprobate.But predestination can incorporate the preordained plan of God for the wicked (reprobate) as well as the glory which is planned for the elect.


    Right you are!AMEN!

    As you can plainly see in Scripture God hates the sinner as well as the sin.Look at Psalm 5:5 for starters:"The arrogant cannot stand in your presence.You hate all who do wrong."

    Go to Proverbs 3:32:"For the Lord detests the perverse..."

    Have a gander at Proverbs 11:20:"The Lord detests those whose hearts are perverse..."

    Now Goldie,are we to accept the testimony of God's Word, or your feeble ruminations?


    What a hoot! Do you think you have vanquished Calvinisim once and for all with your post?

    The thoughts you have expressed in the above is a lot of hooey.You should feel shame.
     
    #46 Rippon, Nov 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2008
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Why don't you make full sentences?You do make foolish assertions though.


    Instead of thinking of I.G. it will be easier for you to remember that the Lord effectually calls His elect ones.




    Pure speculation.That's not founded on biblical truth.

    Please rephrase in more understandable English.What in the world is "unknown before knowledge"?


    Spoken as a true free-willer.Praise the people who have the insight,merit or internal wherewithal to make the right choice!

    What "enlightenment" are you speaking of?It sounds rather new age to me.

    Why does anyone come to the Lord?Answer:Because the Lord draws them to Himself.


    Give me a verse that substantiates that claim of yours.

    Please define "illumination".Does it mean the same thing as "enlightenment"?

    So you're saying Calvinists dwell in darkness because we are still in an unregenerate state?Better answer carefully here.

    Did God bring light to those who know nothing of Christ -- nothing of the Gospel?Before Christ came did He bring saving light to each and every person too?

    There you go again Sal.Those who believe in biblical particular atonement are walking in darkness in your estimation.You really need to get a clue.Along the way acknowledge that you are sorry for your unfounded and disgraceful remarks.

    I believe the whole counsel of the Word of God as a Calvinist.As an Arminian (of sorts) you believe you espouse correct theology.So far you have not demonstrated that you know anything more about true Calvinism than you do about the subject of KJVO.That's a pretty poor track record you have.
     
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Calvinist

    We cannot deny God just Choosing people without even their choice. To prophisied for Jesus to prepare His way. To pick the twelve to prepare them for the Holy Spirits to come.

    Now that the Holy Spirit is here and within us who believe, now the message is for all men and God made us the messenger and whosoever believes shall be saved.

    Calvinist must mature and learn as Paul did that God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

    I constantly pray for a revival.
     
  9. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hi psalms109:31

    You said........

    You never have to be sorry, to take a stand for God’s Word.
     
  10. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hi J.D.

    You said........
    My exact quote was......
    The “if pressed” part, has to do with a desire to “get along” with my brother Calvinist.

    What I meant was, just because I leaning toward Calvinism, doesn’t mean that I agree with all their doctrine.
     
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Since we are kicking this dead horse again, I'll kick mine.

    It's not so much Calvin or calvinism that is the problem.

    KJV 1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

    KJV 1 Corinthians 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

    It's us (First person plural includes me).

    The whole array of personages in this Scripture are included here, Christ Himself, Apostles and teachers from among the "laity".

    It's easy to predict that this kind of thread, if allowed to continue, will eventually bring questions concerning the spiritual condition of others which appears to be a step beyond what Paul was complaining about.

    But, hey, we are Baptists.

    Love and blessings to Aminiasts and Calvinians alike.

    HankD​
     
  12. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hi Salamander

    You said.........
    Very well put.

    Matthew 11:28
    “Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
     
  13. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hi Pastor Larry

    You quoted “someone” saying.........
    Then you asked........
    Well the dilemma is, Calvinists don’t believe that everyone will be given this choice.
     
  14. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    Who told you this? Can you quote me a calvinist who has said this?
     
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Well your camp claims "choice"...but your side redefines the definition of that being between one thing and one thing only...by the real definition of what a choice entails, a non choice.
     
    #55 webdog, Nov 18, 2008
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  16. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Thanks brother for your love and blessings, but the C v A issue doesn't have anything to do with who follows which favorite leader. Something far greater is at stake. To the typical non-C, the justice of God is at stake, and to the typical C, the omnipotent glory of God is at stake. For some people, their whole image of God crumbles if he does not love all people equally, even though the Bible plainly declares that he prefers some over others for no reason in the one preferred.
     
  17. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Okay, I see what you mean. But you did say "just to impress someone". I would just caution you to be fully convinced in your own conscience as to what you believe and don't let anybody "press" you into accepting something you don't really believe.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Can you quote a mainstream Calvinist you have read that has said this?
     
  19. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    I asked you for a quote from a calvinist who says that all people don't have a choice. Is this your answer?
     
  20. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hello again J.D.

    You warned me.........
    Well one of the points of this post, is to warn everybody, that no matter how grounded you are in the faith, it is always dangerous to “give you ear” to anyone teaching error.

    None of us should think, that we can not be deceived.
    1 Corinthians 10:12
    “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
     
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