The hidden dangers of Calvinism

I absolutely agree. If man is ever going to have truth then it will always be God who gives the explanation of the truth. Amen
MB

 

This is exactly what Calvinism teaches. It is, in fact, part of the foundation of Calvnism, that apart from God man will never understand.

 

I am not saying that God's absolute truth must come from man's intelligence, but neither does it come from man's ignorance.

God created us with a brain to think and think we must. Surely this will not cause anyone to turn away from truth. We are taught to have a reason for the faith that is in us. We may never, in this lifetime, fully understand this, but we must make the effort.

All Calvinists are saying is that it is God who works in this dead carcass and brings it back to life in Christ through the Holy Spirit. This is as biblical as I am breathing.

Cheers,

Jim

 

And God did just that through the Incarnation and preaching of the Gospel.

:laugh: And man chooses to ask for salvation and forgiveness of sins after conviction. He must submit first after conviction, not hear and submit later.

Of course you don't. But try me, I think I understand a weebit more than you might think.

 

Not quite, friend, Adam disobeyed God and cast the whole race into sin.

Dice and slice and julian fried faith?:laugh: You add something to faith that isn't even being talked about. The ONLY faith we've discussed is faith in Christ, of which no man could have had until AFTER hearing the Gospel.

A blatant attack on the very word of God!

Yep, the ONLY way anyone can be saved and God remains just to see that no man has an excuse.

Ok, so you admit many calvisinist are confused and make rash statements. I understand Bible, but calvinism is a braod spectrum when considered.

BTW, please explain how anyone is ever holy and without blame before they were ever in Christ?

 

This is true, and is also irrelevant to the point which was being discussed.

And what is that?

True, but who disagreed with that? I didn't.

Show how. (I am guessing you can't.)

Yes indeed, Calvinism at its core.

I didn't admit that, though I don't dispute it. If you read what I said, you will see that I said nothing of the sort.

That has not been demonstrated yet.

Why? Who believes this?

 

So forget the preacher who studies and explains the Bible well?
And forget one of the qualifications of a pastor that he teach well?

 

Hmmmm? I wonder how that statement would go over in the BV&T forum about modern versions?:laugh:

God has the formula to espouse truth and man has to respond in faith to that preached word.

Man has cognitive ability to accept or reject Scripture and that Scripture is never apart from God except out of context.

"Limited atonement" denies "who so ever will". All can be saved if they will respond to the Gospel call. God would have every man to be saved, but every man will not choose to accept Christ.

Teaching that only the elect can be saved takes away from whosoever will and says God predetermines who WILL be saved vs who/ that's anyone, so/ that chooses to believe, ever/ at any time when conviction begins, will/ those who act upon their faith.

Man's feeble attempt to limit God's grace is futility in the deepest example of apostacy.

 

That is true because apart from God man would not be living and his heart would not beat. So it would be impossible for him to understand anything.

 

I didn' say that you did. The preacher is supposed to be used by God to present the message. However the congregation can for the most part read and understand scripture too. We are suppose to be like the Bereans seaching the scripture daily to make sure what the preacher says is really what scripture says.
The Bible says;
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

If the Bereans did this don't you think it wise to make sure what we hear from the preacher is what scripture really says?
MB

 

I have a question: If a man never hears the Gospel like in the darkest days of Africa or where ever, What is his position regarding, Hell or Heaven? Will he be say through ignorance or will he split Hell wide open?

 

No need to wonder. It would go over just fine.

Yes, this is Calvinism.

Yes, this is part of Calvinism. However, the natural man does not have the spiritual ability to accept or reject Scripture.

No it doesn't. This is simply flat out wrong.

This is Calvinism.

This is Calvinism as well.

No it doesn't. This is simply flat out wrong.

Apart from being virtually incoherent, the Bible teaches that whosoever will may come, and those who come do so because they have been chosen by God. The rest don't come. They "will not."

Well put. To limit God's grace by the foolishness of man's unbelief is indeed wrong. You limit God's grace by saying that it can only work when man allows it to. God's grace is much bigger than that.

However, I think it is against the forum rules to call your opponents view apostasy. Not to mention that it is simply incorrect. What you call apostasy is what the church has held as the gospel for two millenia. The good news is that God saves people in spite of their misunderstanding of the gospel.

If you were not elect, you would never have believed.

 

Yes, indeed. It is also true in the spiritual realm. Man is blinded by sin, hardened in his heart, ignorant, and calloused (Eph 4:17-19). Until God opens his eyes to see, he will not see the gospel and will not respond (2 Cor 4:1-6).

 

You will find the answer to that in Romans 1.

 

I'm not talking about those kind of people. I'm talking about "Those that have never heard of the Gospel now and earlier times."

 

I'm not talking in any way about those kind of people.
Read my question again.

 

That doesn't make sense according to Romans 1. You are implying there are "other people" that don't have the Truth presented to them, which is false. EVERYONE has the chance to accept or reject that which is True. It has been presented to them! There is no such thing as a group of people that exist who have never heard about God, know nothing of Him, and haven't had the Truth presented to them. John 3:18 states these people "believed not". The opportunity to believe is real.

 

Uh-oh, apply that to Isaiah 59 where iniquities and sins separate us from God?

Separation is the state of being apart from God due to sin which kills.

The fact remains that the dead in tresspasses and sins can hear the voice of God and become regenerate, which being regenerate IS a state of being alive unto God!

Now, if ANY calvinist can explain how someone who is DEAD can be in a living state, APART from natural life and spiritually exclusive, I will make concession.

The dead can respond ONLY to the voice of God.

Calvinism goes beyond the doctrinal proof of this fact and is therefore extra-biblical.

 

Or become regenerate and hear the voice of God.

If you use "dead" and "living" the way the Bible uses them, this is an easy explanation that you have already given.

This seems a welcome change on your part, from heresy and apostasy to now being only "extra-biblical." If you continue down this path, you will soon come to the Bible's position on the matter.