The Holy Spirit and Salvation !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jul 20, 2011.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jn 16:7

    7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    The word expedient also conveys the meaning of [appropriate for a purpose]. The Lord Jesus Christ is giving His disciples [The Church] to know the importance of the need of the comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, to come and to assist in their commission of evangelism, not only would He aid them, but He is needed for the gathering in of the rest of the Church, the people Christ died for.

    The Holy Spirit was responsible to apply the saving benefits to all Christ died for, the Church, His Body. He came to regenerate all of God's elect as it was according to The Everlasting Covenant of which Christ is the Surety.

    Isa 59:21

    As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

    The coming of the Spirit to regenerate is a covenant promise [Ezk 36:26-27] and blood purchased, He works by means of the Father and the Son [Jn 14:26], as this is realized we give Glory To God Triune for the Salvation of a sinner, and Thank Them for the saving Operations of the Spirit.

    The Holy Spirit works from the Father's decree 2 Thess 2:13

    13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    And the Son's redemption Gal 4:5

    To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    Rom 8:15

    For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

    And so He is sent to make effective what was counseled in the Everlasting Covenant for the experimental salvation of God's people that Christ died for.

    To all the Father elected, all whom Christ died, the Spirit is given to them as the Spirit of promise. The Holy Spirit is the bond of union between the elect members and Christ their Head, He unites us to Christ experimentally because we have the Same Spirit He has, that is the Holy Spirit in the Head is in the members, so He works like effects for the same, if He quickens the Head as here:

    Rom 8:11

    But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    1 Pet 3:18

    For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    He will also quicken the Members..

    Thats why each dead spiritually elect or chosen in Christ Eph 1:4 will be quickened while dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,4,5

    1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

    This is a work of the Spirit in Salvation, why it was expedient that Christ go away that He may come and begin His Saving, quickening Ministry, at this time He would mostly work in behalf of the apostles to prepare the elect to receive their word..
     
  2. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    You have many verses quoted without the context given. Anyone can do that. My typical example is:

    The Bible says: "There is no God."
    Does that mean the Bible teaches atheism?
    No, it means the verse is not quoted without its full context of Psalm 14:1.
    You have done the same thing in pulling a verse here and there without any context given.

    The Holy Spirit does not work in a vacuum. The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God.
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit !

    Gal 5:22

    22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

    And this word Faith is also Faithfulness, so those born of Him persevere, remain faithful in the Faith..see Heb 10:39

    Now the Holy Spirit imparts Faith to the Covenant Heirs. Yes Faith is essential to salvation, the bible makes that clear, but the error of today is that its a condition for getting saved. It must be understood that Christ redemptive work purchased, bought the workings of the Holy Spirit for all those He died for and redeemed by His blood.

    Christ death accomplished more than just satisfying God's Legal demands against the elect, leaving them to perform Faith and Repentance [both spiritual acts]. Christ also must purchase [in His redemption] these blessings for them, because the Natural Man [dead in sin and a slave to sin] is completely void of these Godly Graces. That Faith is in the order of salvation is seen in such verses as Eph 2:8; Acts 16:31; and Rom 1:16, for God gives Faith in the effecting of subjective salvation 2 Thess 2:13


    13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    Believing, Faith is a fruit of the sanctifying work of the Spirit. But again, the fatal error in religion today is saying that faith or believing is a condition for salvation we must meet, for every condition for bestowing salvation on the chosen has been met by Christ and through Him by The Spirit..
     
  4. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Indeed faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit for the saved.

    But without faith one cannot be saved.
    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Romans 5:1)

    For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Romans 4:3)
    But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5)

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
     
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed, but NOT only through the word of God...
     
  6. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Let's look at it from a different point of view.

    How does God work today? The Holy Spirit is the third person of the triune Godhead. God cannot be separated There is only one God. Not to be presumptuous, but I believe God is a dispensationalist. Here is what the Bible says:

    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrews 1:1-2)

    A dispensation is simply a period of time, and here God sets forth two periods of time in which he worked, but differently in each period. That is dispensationalism.

    In the first period (time past--the OT), He spoke to the prophets in different ways and at various times. How was that? It was through dreams, visions, an audible voice, theophanies, etc. He used different ways and methods to speak through the prophets, his spokesmen, for Israel.

    But in these last days (this dispensation--this age of grace or church era) God speaks to us through his Son. How does he speak to us through his Son. Everything that we need to know about his Son is revealed to us through His Word. If one claims to know anything about Jesus Christ outside of God's Word that is Gnosticism, and it is heresy. The Holy Spirit illuminates us through His Word. He reveals Jesus Christ to us through His Word.

    We do not believe in mysticism. God uses his word to speak to his people, as well as to a lost and dying world. There is no other way. This is what the Bible teaches.
     
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0

    Just stating that he can still move as he so Wills, as he is part of the Godhead!

    primary "moving" is indeed through the Bible, but can still direct/lead/guide through other agents such as circumstamces/situations.couseling from godly persons etc!

    Don't think that we living in a 'closed off/ONLY Bible" era right now, it is primary and the norm, just that no scripture states that he cannot go "outside the box" as He so chooses!
     
  8. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    The Holy Spirit's working is almost always traced back to God's Word, even if that Word was something heard back in childhood Sunday School. One cannot be saved without the Word of God. God is not an existentialist. That tribal pygmy in Africa will not get saved without the Word of God inspite of any work of the Holy Spirit.
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agree in that, just talking mainly about the HS and His dealings with us after salvation!
     
  10. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    God often uses circumstances, Godly people or counsel, and other similar things, but usually a believer has Scripture memorized, hidden in his heart, so that the Holy Spirit is still working in and through the Word as well as guiding through other things.
     
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Holy Spirit imparts or gives Faith !

    Faith is the connection between the soul and Christ, which connection is made by the Holy Spirit by means of regeneration and the effectual call. The various steps of the outworking of God's Eternal Purpose are seen in Rom 8:29-30, with the application of redemption beginning with the effectual call of the Spirit, by which the elect are brought from a state of nature into a state of Grace, or from darkness into light, or is passed from death unto life. The Two biggest falsehoods in religion today regarding salvation by Faith, is to teach that fallen, spiritually dead sinner is capable of it, that it is an act of mans freewill, and this delusion has slayed its millions. A Dead man cannot believe, for to believe in Christ as to salvation is the result and fruit of life having been communicated to the soul, see Jn 6:44; Eph 1:19 which is accomplished by the Holy Ghosts regeneration; It should be noted that Jn 1:12 is explained by Jn 1:13 and Jn 3:15-16 are preceded by Jn 3:3-7, so those being born again to believe 1 Jn 5:1. Another error is separating the Spirits communication of Faith from the direct results of Christ cross work. Why do we believe and walk by Faith? Because we are made righteous by the obedience of one Rom 5:19..
     
    #11 savedbymercy, Sep 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2011
  12. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    You are in error. The Holy Spirit does not give faith.
    Faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
    Faith is confidence, confidence or trust in the Word of another.
    In Biblical faith the object of one's faith is Christ. We get to know Christ through the Word of God. The more we know the Word of God the more faith we are able to exercise, for the more we will know about Him.

    Secondly God never gives faith the unregenerate. He never gives spiritual gifts or the gifts of the Holy Spirit to the unsaved. To think such an idea is absurd. God gives his gifts to those that are saved. He does not give faith to the unregenerate. There is no scripture that says he does.
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    dhk

    What scripture stated that ?
     
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus told His disciples this Jn 16:7

    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    The Word expedient is the greek word sympherō and means:


    to bear or bring together

    2) to bear together or at the same time

    a) to carry with others

    b) to collect or contribute in order to help

    c) to help, be profitable, be expedient

    Now this profitable or advantage was for them in their evangelistic campaign, as they set out to carry the gospel to all nations. His [The Spirit] companionship was needed for it to be a success and Glorifying to God. He would not only be a blessing to them personally, but would also be a blessing to those to whom they were sent to bring glad tidings, for He was sent to perform conversion work. This was a continuation of the effects and blessings of Christ Finished work of the Cross.

    In His [The Spirit] Mission, He would do the following in extending the Kingdom of God in the world Jn 16:8-11

    8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

    10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

    11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

    This word reprove it means to:

    to convict, refute, confute

    generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted

    to chasten, to punish


    Its the same word used in Rev 3:19

    19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    Note: If Jesus Christ Loves one, He Chastens ! So if He loved all the World without exception, then He would be obligated to Chasten them, and If He Chastens them, then they must have been Sons according to Heb 12:6, so if this is True, and Christ Loved all men without exception, then all are Sons without exception, which promotes Universalism, which is a lie.

    So He [The Spirit] is going to do a effectual work for the World He will be dealing with.

    This is His conversion work unto the world of the Elect of God, He will convict them of it of sin, righteousness and judgment.
     
  15. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Your Scripture either is irrelevant to the discussion, pulled out of its context (as usual), or doesn't deal with the OP.

    I gave you a statement: Here it is:

    You never even addressed it. You just quoted Scripture dealing with the Holy Spirit, as if you never even read my post. Try reading it first.
     
  16. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37
    So then the faith (belief n.) [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

    My sheep hear my voice,

    ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep,

    I know them, and they follow me:

    Of course they were lost sheep but they heard The Faith call them and heard.

    But after that the faith (n.) is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


    Was there a moment a twinkling of the eye when faith cometh?

    And so DHK will not accuse me of derailing the OP was it not this very faith that cometh that made it possible for the promise of the Holy Spirit to be given those called to hear and believe?

    Gal. 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise, by faith of Jesus Christ, might be given to them that believe.
    Also 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith. (n.)
     
  17. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    MY statement still stands. God does not give faith to the unregenerate.
    He does not give the fruit of the Holy Spirit (including faith) to the unsaved).
    He does not give spiritual gifts of any kind to the unsaved.
    They are spiritually blind, in spiritual darkness, without the Holy Spirit, and without his gifts. How can you say that the unregenerate have the gifts of the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit. That is a ludicrous position.

    Gal.3:22 "might be given to them that believe" (not the unregenerate). The verse says nothing about God giving faith to the unregenerate.

    3:14 "That WE (believers) might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Again, there is no mention of the unregenerate here. Paul includes himself here in this statement indicative of the fact that he is speaking of believers not the unsaved.
     
  18. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37


    I agree kinda. He gives to his sheep. Paul was a sheep but he could not hear nor understand until the Lord called him therefore he did not become a believing sheep until that day on the road to Damascus. Until that day he was a lost sheep of the house of Judah, blind shall we say.
     
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now how is it that the Holy Spirit will convince the world of sin ? First of all who is the world here that the Spirit will focus own ? It certainly is not the world that Jesus says this about Jn 17:9

    9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

    Its that world of them that God hath given Him ! Remember Jn 6:39

    39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    This is the World of God's redeeming Love Jn 3:16, the world of His Church which He gave Himself for as Eph 5:25

    25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

    A world comprised of both jew and gentile. Remember to whom Jesus was speaking to at this time, jewish disciples, so Jesus was informing them that the Holy Spirit whom He was sending to further His work of the Cross, would not just be to jews, but to peoples of the gentiles or throughout the world. Yes God had a Chosen People in the heathen nations that He was going to Justify by Faith Gal 3:8

    8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    So the Holy Spirit was needed in fulfillment of that purpose as well Gal 3:14

    14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    So its that world that the Holy Spirit is coming to convince them of sin, because they believe not on Him as of yet..
     
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    And when He shall come He shall, not attempt to, but He shall reprove the world,not just jews, but the world of sin, because they believe not on me ! His [The Holy Spirit] work rectifies that problem, it solves it completely.

    So what sin is it that the Holy Spirit will convince this world of ? The Sin of unbelief and the opposition to the True Gospel, and their sin of self righteousness, and trusting in their own works and religious efforts [dead works] to make themselves acceptable before God. Many believe that sin here means things like immorality, drunkenness and stealing and etc. Men however do not need convincing of such things, natural conscience will do that Rom 2:14-15


    14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

    15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another )

    But unbelief because of self righteousness is a sin that mere human conscience does not convince us of its evil nature before God. In fact natural conscience gives us self approbation before God when the very opposite is true. Remember the prayer of the pharisee ? Notice Lk 18:11-14

    This pharisee did not realize he was an evil wicked man before God, and nothing short of a Sovereign Work of the Holy Spirit would ever convict this man of sin, his sinfulness before God.

    Read Isa 64:6 one version says :

    "and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment".esv

    You see, we men by nature cannot even begin to understand this truth, that our righteous behaviour when commending us to God, is disgusting to Him. Why is this? Because its a slap in the face of God to all what He gave His Son the Lord Jesus Christ to accomplish for the sins of His People, and the righteousness that He alone provides for God's People. Its the Only righteousness known to God that He approves of, and Glorifies Him. It is written of Christ Isa 42:21

    21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it Honorable.
     

Share This Page

Loading...