The Ideal Church

Not necessarily. People can peform the outward things like fasting, praying, and tithing and still not even be saved.

I do like the part about knowing the Bible and being evangelistic, but I would add to those:

Being humble

Welcoming anyone and being welcoming to visitors more than just shaking their hands (like inviting them to lunch afterwards)

Educated pastors (I've got a thing about that)

Discerning members - they don't just ride every wave that comes along

Hospitable

I might think of more but have to go. :type:

 

I would add that the ideal church would contain people who were compassionate and who put redemptive action to their compassion. Compassion for whom? My favorite phrase is, "the last, the least, the lost, and the lonely."

 

On the other hand, Jesus said:

I agree some churches might emphasize external practices. The Pharisees also were practicing the traditions of men over what God had commanded, and emphasizing ritualistic practices over obeying God.

I think that a bigger danger I see in churches today is seeking the experiential, minimizing the importance of objective truth, and reading the Bible subjectively. I think those are more of a problem than emphasizing externals, at least from what I've observed.

 

The Pharisee got everything he asked for yet nothing he needed. His reliance was upon himself. What he was doing was not the problem, it was that he trusted in himself. The pharisees were concerned about the minor points, which was good and should not be left undone, however, they neglected the weightier matters such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness (Matt 23:23). Jesus also said, do what they say, just don't follow their examples (Matt 23:3). From this, my take is that we should be concerned with details, but let's not loose sight of the the big picture either. The right actions with the wrong attitude or the wrong actions with the right attitide is useless. God must be worshipped in spirit and in truth.

When Jesus said we are to take up our cross and follow him, just what did He mean? What is a cross used for? It is an implement of death. We must die to ourselves and totally rely on God.

People in the church are forgiven, not perfect, therefore, there will never be a "perfect" church in that sense, even though the design is perfect.

 

We may have Bible study classes but I don't think Christians know their Bible at all. I see things taken out of context all the time, interpreted subjectively or wrongly, etc. So I see a big parallel to the Pharisees fall short. The Pharisees did know scripture and they knew the law.

I don't think any of the above are bad. What counts is your faith and doing things in faith. If you are relying on yourself, or if the church is relying on man-based methods, then that is the problem.

What matters is for the pastors to exhort church members to make the Lord their priority, to examine their faith and that they do all things in faith, to really teach the Bible to the congregation and how to interpret it, to not rely on themselves, and seek to please the Lord, not men.

 

I wouldn't want to be in that church.....Where's the love?

Bro Tony

 

Thanks.

Some of these things are emphasized at the apologetics and bible discernment conferences I attend (and where I speak on New Age topics, not church stuff), but attendance typically is pretty low. Also, at some of these conferences, they've had critiques of the church growth stuff.

There are some tapes from two of these conferences at
http://www.pfo.org/2006tape.htm

http://www.pfo.org/2004tape.htm