The Immutable Present - Jn. 5:24

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    SECURE SALVATION - JN 5:24 - PART I​



    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


    1. The Absolute Certainty:
    "Verily, verily" double emphasis that demands absolute certainty of what is about to be spoken.


    2. The Present tense verbs - "heareth....believeth....hath" - are all continuous action in the present state. These verbs are found in the indicative mood which declares a factual condition or state. He does not use the subjunctive mode or any causual particles or conditional clauses, but describes a factual present condition or state of existence (indicative mode). This is not a conditional life but an "eternal" life in possession. This present state in this context is immutable because the past action by God in reference to this present tense state is immutable from its point of completion to the present state and the future tense denies any change of the present state - thus the present state is immutably present.


    3. Future tense verb - "shall not come into condemnation" The before described present condition will not be changed in the future. Only condemnation in the future from this present state would change the present state or rob this person of eternal life. Hence, this continuing action of faith and eternal life is immutable.


    4. Perfect Tense verb - "passed from death unto life" - The perfect tense ("passed") points to a completed point of action in the past that remains unchangable or in a perfected state up to the present. The transaction from death to life is not a continuing or conditional action but is a completed action that remains complete - immutable to the present state (which present state is described as a believing condition).


    CONCLUSION: This present tense condition of eternal life in a believing state remains immutable from the point it was obtained in the past right up to its present state (perfect tense) and will remain immutable forever into the future (future tense) - thus "eternal" life. This means the present described condition as "heareth.....believeth.....hath eternal life" is immutable in the past, present and future.
     
  2. Zenas

    Zenas
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    All right. Let's say you have a man who "heareth and believeth" but 10 years later murders someone (commits adultery, robs a bank, choose your poison). What then?
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    Gid will judge him for that sin, as he will allow Him to get ounished by the courts, but not judge him as to loss of eternal life, IF he really had it to start with!
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Didn't David murder Bathsheba's husband thus committing both murder & adultery? What happened to him?
     
  5. Zenas

    Zenas
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    I don't know what happened to David after he died. Do you? I have reason to believe he was forgiven but I'm not sure if scripture expressly says so. However, Paul said:
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    First, you cannot deal with the grammatical context, so you ignore it and enter into the what "if" scenario based entirely upon your view of redemption. Hence, admission you have no contextual based response to the grammatical evidence.

    Second, what don't you understand about "shall not come into condemation"????? Don't you think Christ realized what he was saying? He is using the future tense and He denies that "condemnation" is a future reality for believers.

    Paul makes it clear in Romans 4:7-8 that all sin, past, present and future is paid in full when a person is justified. He is justified by faith in a FINISHED work, a work that completely PROPITIATIES = Satisfies all of God's demands. Justification is based on the WHOLE LIFE of Christ but not one iota on any aspect of your life either before justification, during or after, as what you have done, doing or will do plays not part of justification. That is why his life is imputed by faith.

    Confession of sin after justification is experiential, cleansing of the conscience and maintaining fellowship, but it is not a NEW SIN that failed to be paid under the basis of justification. Christ died 2000 years ago and ALL your sins were yet future, therefore, if he paid for ANY He had to pay FOR ALL in advance.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    RCC cannot see it in this light though, as in their theology of salvation, Jesus atoned/pardons all past sins done up until thattime,, but God still needs to view and weigh out how we lived for him after that, so if we fail to partake of enough sacramental graces, or commit a Mortal Sin, then?
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Either he paid for sin in full and it is "finished' or it is not! He did not break off a chunk and give it to us and then later tell us to earn the rest.
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    that is where Justice comes into view.....we have a Just God. And his mercy is for his Elect.
     
  10. PreachTony

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    Agreed. Why would Christ on the cross say "It is finished" if it wasn't actually finished?

    I'll own up to being a bit behind the curve on the whole Calvinism vs Arminianism debate, though I know a good bit more about Calvinism than Arminianism. I come from a small church where these topics don't really get bandied about.

    I just happen to believe His mercy was extended to all. I mean, Mark 8:34 says "And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." It doesn't say "[If] Whosoever [that is elect] will come after me..."

    Similarly, John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world..." I've never read that and thought, Yeah, but it really should say "For God so loved the Elect..."
     
  11. Yeshua1

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    amen!

    yet that is exactly what the RCC teaches though...
     

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