The Impeccability of Christ

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by david reed, Sep 24, 2001.

  1. david reed

    david reed
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    Believe me when I say that I am not trying to
    stir up controversy, nor am I trying to start a fight with anyone, but the area of
    the impeccability of the Saviour is rather a hot topic in my area of the country(the Bible belt), and I was wondering where you fine folks here on the BB stand on this Bible
    doctrine. I apologize if this has already
    been discussed on some earlier thread, but I
    am a relative new comer and am just curious. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Aaron

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    If by "impeccable," you mean He was above reproach, sinless, perfect, etc., then, I agree. I have to. It's in the Bible.
     
  3. DocCas

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    Doctrine of the impeccability of Christ does not deal with whether or not He sinned but whether or not he could have sinned. As I believe He was God in the flesh, I do not believe He was able to sin, as sin is the product of the sin nature, which He did not have. [​IMG]
     
  4. Hal Parker

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    If Jesus could not sin because he didn't have a sin nature, then how was Adam able to sin? He was created without a sin nature. Wasn't he?
     
  5. DocCas

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    Adam was created in innocence. He had free will, but lost that free will became a bond-slave of sin, as are all his descendents, when he used his free will to disobey God.

    Today, man does not have free will. He is either a bond-slave to sin or a bond-slave to Jesus Christ.
     
  6. Aaron

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    Ah, but Jesus is the second Adam, 1 Cor. 15:45.

    What good was His submission if it was constrained?
     
  7. david reed

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    Aaron,
    You have one fatal flaw in your thinking
    my brother, I Cor. 15:45 actualy says " The first man Adam was made a living soul; the
    LAST Adam was made a quickening spirit."
    Christ was not the second Adam, He was the
    LAST Adam. Study II Cor.5:21 and get back
    to me.
     
  8. John Wells

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    Paul begins with a quotation from Gen. 2:7 with the addition of two words, “first” and “Adam.” Adam was created with a natural body, not perfect, but good in every way (Gen. 3:1). The “last Adam” is Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:19, 21). He is saying that through the first Adam we received our natural bodies, but through the last Adam we will receive our spiritual bodies in resurrection. Adam’s body was the prototype of the natural, Christ’s body of the resurrection. We will bear the image of His body fit for heaven (Acts 1:11; Phil. 3:20, 21; 1 John 3:1–3) as we have borne the image of Adam’s on earth.

    Since Adam was created “good in every way,” he was created perfect but not infallible. He was created with the God-given ability to make moral choices, and he made a serious wrong one. In contrast, Jesus was NOT created; was NOT fallible, and could not have sinned. He did not have the sin nature or the inclination to sin.

    The allegory of Jesus as the “last Adam” means he was a “type” of Adam, where comparisons and contrasts could be drawn. Back in verses 21-23, Paul shows that the resurrection of Jesus, which the Corinthians accept, is a pledge that ‘all’ will share a like destiny, just as all die in Adam. Adam, who by sinning, set in motion a chain-reaction of sin and its consequence of death by God’s decree. Christ, who by his obedience, has inaugurated a saving process in which men receive God’s gracious gift of righteousness and ‘reign in life.’
     
  9. preacher

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    Thomas:
    What happened to free will? A person either
    chooses Eternal Life or eternal condemnation,
    don't they?
     
  10. Aaron

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by david reed:
    Aaron,
    You have one fatal flaw in your thinking
    my brother, I Cor. 15:45 actualy says " The first man Adam was made a living soul; the
    LAST Adam was made a quickening spirit."
    Christ was not the second Adam, He was the
    LAST Adam. Study II Cor.5:21 and get back
    to me.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Last or Second, however you want to say it. There have only been two men in history who could affect the whole human race, one for death and the other for life. Adam is the source of death for all mankind. Jesus is the source of life. So the Last Adam was indeed the Second Adam. As Charles Wesley elloquently phrased it in Hark! The Herald Angels sing:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Adam’s likeness, Lord, efface,
    Stamp Thine image in its place:
    Second Adam from above,
    Reinstate us in Thy love.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    But, I will not enter into a strife over words in this issue.
    [​IMG]

    [ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by preacher:
    What happened to free will? A person either chooses Eternal Life or eternal condemnation, don't they?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If I can jump in a moment (Dr. C is travelling and may not get time for every thread) one must understand that man's will is always subject to his nature. For instance, God's nature is such that He CANNOT do things contrary to it. Will/volition is controlled by nature.

    Man became a sinner and has a sin nature. His will is in bondage to that sin nature. He can NEVER do anything contrary to it. He cannot "believe", "accept", "open up his heart", "choose", "will", "work", "trust", or any such. Can't do it.

    So how CAN a person choose? Glad you asked! It is all up to GOD! God must give the dead, incapable sinful man a new birth, a new nature. That is called "regeneration".

    When GOD does that, then man chooses to accept Christ, believe, call on the name of the Lord, etc. But salvation all starts and ends with GOD doing the work, not man.
     
  12. HankD

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    Was Christ not able to sin or was He able not to sin?

    James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

    HankD
     
  13. Ars

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron:
    Last or Second, however you want to say it. There have only been two men in history who could affect the whole human race, one for death and the other for life. Adam is the source of death for all mankind. Jesus is the source of life. So the Last Adam was indeed the Second Adam. As Charles Wesley elloquently phrased it in Hark! The Herald Angels sing:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I understand you don't want to enter into a debate over words, but I feel I must point something out. I believe there is a big difference between "last" and "second".

    Last-final, end, no other.

    Second-next to the first in place or time, next to the first in value, excellence, or degree.

    Second also carries with it the possibility of there being a third, fourth, fifth etc. Will there be a third Adam? Or a fourth. No, Jesus was the last Adam. There will be no other.

    Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. He could never be the second Adam.

    Dave

    [ September 30, 2001: Message edited by: Dajuid ]
     
  14. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dajuid:
    Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. He could never be the second Adam.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
    46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
    47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
    48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
    49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    To be second does not necessitate there must be a third, fourth, etc. In a two-man race, the winner is first and the loser is second! Simlarly, in a pair of bookends, one is first and the second is last.

    I Cor 15 makes it clear that Jesus is both the last Adam and the Second Man. Adam and Jesus are the bookends of human history and redemption. Adam was the first of all sinful humans, Jesus is the Firstfruits of a new, redeemed race of men.
     
  15. Ars

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    I see your point and stand corrected.
     
  16. preacher

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    Dr. Bob;
    You make it sound( to me anyway) like we have no choice at all in the matter. When a person is under true conviction, does he not at that time realize that the God of Heaven is dealing with him? That God has opened his eyes to reveal to that person his true sinful state? isn't repentence a choice? The Word teaches you must repent, agree with God
    about our hopelessness, & accept Christ as our Saviour. Thats Choice of an individual.
    I know God gives us even the Faith we need to come to Him, but we must choose to use that Faith. If we have no choice in the matter, then why isn't everyone saved since it's the will of our Father that none should perish, but that all should come to repentence?
     
  17. david reed

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    I started this thread to simply find out where the majority of the BB members stood
    on this subject. I guess I need to let all
    no where I stand as well. Jesus did not sin
    because he could not sin. No way. Sin was a foriegn thing to the Saviour. It is much like
    a magnet and metal. There is something in a magnet that is attractive to steel, yet that same magnet has no attraction whatever to a
    piece of aluminum. The same holds true with sin and mankind. There is something in sin that holds an attraction to man, it is because of the sin nature. Jesus Christ was much like the aluminum in the illustration.
    there was nothing in Him that was attractive
    to sin because he had no sin nature. The Bible says He was yet without (Seperate from)
    sin. He did not die because of his own sin,
    whether committed or not, He died for our sin
    a perfect sacrifice without spot(sin). [​IMG]
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by preacher:
    Dr. Bob - You make it sound like we have no choice at all in the matter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're catching on!! Even if we DID have a choice, we would always make the wrong choice. That is 100% consistent with our nature. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When a person is under true conviction, does he not at that time realize that the God of Heaven is dealing with him? That God has opened his eyes to reveal to that person his true sinful state?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If God's Spirit is truly convicting and regenerating him, his eyes WILL be opened to believe (faith) and repent. That is what the new birth does; it gives us a new nature that will, by our own choice of that new nature, accept Christ. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Isn't repentence a choice? The Word teaches you must repent, agree with God
    about our hopelessness, & accept Christ as our Saviour. That's choice of an individual.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    God also gives us repentance. That ability to repent is just as much a gift of God. I Tim. 2:25 "Those who oppose . . he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth" <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I know God gives us even the Faith we need to come to Him, but we must choose to use that Faith. If we have no choice in the matter, then why isn't everyone saved since it's the will of our Father that none should perish, but that all should come to repentence?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We HAVE a choice, but always choose wrong. God changes our nature in the new birth and we choose right. Amazing, but that is the only way salvation will be "all of God".

    If it were up to me, I'd go to hell. But God did not FORCE me to go against my will, He just changed my will!

    And please read II Peter again. That verse is terribly wrested from context. Peter is writing to Christians. Period. And there is an important "us" that must be seen - God is longsuffering toward US, not willing that any (refer back to US) should perish, but that all (again, it refers back to US as the antecedent) should come . . .

    And we ALL - God's chosen - WILL because He gave us that new WILL! And none that the Father gave the Son will be lost. Not one. Those only will He rise up. Praise His Name!

    [ October 02, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  19. preacher

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    Who did Christ die for? Again if there's no choice, then why are we to be the Light, or the Salt, why take the Gospel into all the world if God is picking & choosing who He will save?
    Also..how can a Christian sin willfully, even just once, if he has no will of his own?
     
  20. Dr. Bob

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by preacher:
    Who did Christ die for? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All that the Father gave Him. He atoned for their (our) sin and we can never be blamed again for it! If He had died for everyone's sins, then God would be terribly unjust in demanding a second payment when His own Son's blood didn't work! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Again if there's no choice, then why are we to be the Light, or the Salt, why take the Gospel into all the world if God is picking & choosing who He will save?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>God commanded us to go and give the Gospel to all because WE do not know who the selected ones that will be given faith and repentance are. Everything I do, I do because God wants me to, not for self-motive (in theory). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Also, how can a Christian sin willfully, even just once, if he has no will of his own?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Man DOES have a will. Unsaved man's will is bound by his sinful nature to always choose wrong.

    Once a man is regenerated and given a new, holy nature, he is still not "perfect" and may opt for wrong choices. He is NOT a robot; God is NOT a puppet-master.

    But God does control who is regenerated so that they will call on Him. What we do after that begs a totally different question (if you'd like, start a new thread on that!)

    Dr. Bob, LVOnly
    (Latin Vulgate Only - it was the ONLY Bible for 1000 years and we won't let some johnny-come-lately in 1611 take its place)
     

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