The Interventionist Failures and How To Fix Them

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    A look at latest opinion polls clearly demonstrates that an increasing number of Americans – in some categories a critical mass – have lost faith in the aggressive interventionist policies of the recent era. Bombings, drones, invasions of numerous countries overseas have not been received by the residents of those countries with gratitude.


    There are no flowers in the streets to greet the US military when boots hit the ground. Sadly, what they have most often been greeted with is roadside bombs and other horrors.


    As for those living under constant threat of a US drone attack, for example in Pakistan where Senator Lindsay Graham claims we have killed some 4,700 individuals by drone, we see the simmering hatred threatening to boil over daily. In Pakistan, one of the world’s most unstable and potentially dangerous countries is further destabilized daily largely due to US drone policy. Considering the overwhelming percentage of civilians killed by drone versus bona fide terrorists, it is unsurprising that nearly 100 percent of those recently polled in Pakistan view the US government as their enemy.

    < snip >

    The foreign policy planners and their neo-conservative Rasputins have turned the dream of a more peaceful world after the end of the Cold War into a nightmare. They have had their way with US foreign policy, drowning out the realists and the non-interventionists, screaming into every available microphone that only their way will bring us peace and security. But they have failed. We are not more secure at home, despite spending trillions. We have seen that recently. But when the government fails to protect us they can only demand more of our money and more of our freedoms for more empty promises. The US is not even by their standards in a strategically advantaged position overseas, as everywhere there is distrust and suspicion.


    CONTINUE . . .
     
    #1 poncho, Sep 26, 2013
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  2. Revmitchell

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    Yes because the terrorist would just leave us alone if we were not over there.:rolleyes:
     
  3. poncho

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    Our current policy is creating more terrorists and enemies than it's destroying. So, the "smart" thing to do is keep it going and going and going?

    What's the cure to all the problems our interventionist foreign policy has caused? More interventionism! That's just brilliant Rev! :rolleyes:
     
    #3 poncho, Sep 26, 2013
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  4. Revmitchell

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    Terrorists are going to be terrorists no matter what we do. Islam is on the move for world domination.

    This is an assumption and I reject the premise.
     
  5. poncho

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    Islam has always been on the move for world domination. The neocons have only been at it for 12 years and yet they've helped spread Al Qaeda in places there was no Al Qaeda before. Washington is training, funding, arming these terrorists that you fear will take over the world Rev. The evidence is manifest. To deny this now only makes you look foolish. Spare yourself the embarrassment, please.

    Washington and it's aggressive interventionism is the single biggest factor in the spread of radical Islam today.

    Then you are against more interventionism? Doesn't sound it. Sounds like you're so afraid of Islam taking over the world you can't see the harm in killing hundreds of thousands maybe millions of people and driving millions more from their homes that have done us no harm.

    The only way to rid the world of Islam is to kill them all men, women, and children because those you leave alive become our future enemies and terrorists. Genocide. Is that the kind of foreign policy that would make you feel safer?

    And what about all the Christians and Jews our Al Qaeda allies are murdering while Washington sends these beheaders and liver eaters more money and arms?

    What have you got to say to these Christians and Jews?
     
    #5 poncho, Sep 26, 2013
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  6. Revmitchell

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    Saying neocons want world domination only discredits you.

    Intervention does nothing to spread Islam. If anything it holds it at bay.

    I do not believe we should be involved in anything right now. We do not have the money. WE are a broke country.

    Quite the exaggeration and very misleading.

    Says you.

    We have no Al Qaeda allies. Another misrepresentation.
     
  7. poncho

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    Hey now Rev I was just repeating what I've read in their documents, books and policy papers. Evidently you haven't bothered to read them so how does your lack of knowledge discredit me?

    That's true Rev but only in an Orwellian world. Again you're acting the part of the magician by trying to make all the evidence to the contrary disappear from your mind. Don't strain yourself there's just to much of it. Even for you.

    What and leave all those Islamic terrorists out there on the loose? Make up your mind either you are with Washington or you are with the terrorists. You heard George Bush.

    Besides Saudi Arabia and Qatar offered to pay our military costs for fighting their wars for them. You heard Joe Bidden, right? Doesn't that sound like a good deal to you?

    A million people were forced to flee Iraq alone. The numbers are being tallied up all the time. Your magical act of denial isn't erasing them.

    Make up your mind already Rev you can't keep the Islamic hordes at bay by worrying about being broke. You act like it's your money being spent to wage what is it now seven or eight wars and intervening in the internal affairs of seventy other countries. No sweat brother Rev man it's not your pocket it will come out of that's your grand children's burden to bare.

    Not officially no. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are allied with Al Qaeda (actually they employ them) and we're their allies. And they are Muslim dictatorships. Well that's something to brag about at least. We're allied to Muslim dictatorships that employ radical Islamists and we're all fighting for "truth, justice and the American way". Oh and that natural gas pipeline the Qatari's want to build though Syria to relieve the poor Europeans that have to rely on mother Russia for it's NG is just coincidence.

    Yeah right.
     
    #7 poncho, Sep 27, 2013
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  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I saw six replies to a thread started by Poncho and figured he was on here talking to himself like he always does. Gotta stop feeding that thing, Rev.
     
  9. poncho

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    Yeah everyone agrees that reading the opinions of Bill O'Rielly and Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal over and over and over and over and over and over again and then some is way more fascinating than learning what's really going on.

    Yer quite the . . . JOKER . . . TND . . . I know a guy that knows a guy that works at Zanies. Maybe I can get you a stand up gig there. Got a great stage name for ya . . . "the beleaguered neocon" that would be a hoot! :laugh:

    Hey did you ever find those "Syrian Moderates" you and John McCain have been looking for? No? What happened you give up? Maybe they're hiding out with Saddams WMD's! :laugh:
     
    #9 poncho, Sep 27, 2013
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  10. poncho

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    What took 10 years in Afghanistan, occurred in Syria in less than two; Report: Nusra

    Syria’s most prominent jihadist organization, the Nusra Front, is creating a base for al-Qaida in the heart of the Middle East from which waves of terrorism and radical subversion will likely ripple out and threaten regional and global security.

    This is according to a report issued this week by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center near Tel Aviv.

    < snip >

    “What took 10 years to happen in Afghanistan occurred in Syria within a year or two,” said Erlich, a reserve colonel who served in a range of capacities in IDF Military Intelligence. “Syria is in heart of Middle East and in the backyard of Europe, and borders Israel. Geo-politically, it’s more central than Afghanistan and Pakistan. This makes the threat potential very high.”

    http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Al-Nusra-Front-forging-al-Qaida-base-in-Syria-327252

    There's yer interventionist policy at work Rev. You remember Al Nusra right? The Jihadi group that McCain's "moderates" have been flocking to. Presumably right after they get their new weapons and cash from the CIA, the Saudi's and Qatari's.
     
    #10 poncho, Sep 28, 2013
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  11. poncho

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    FLASBACK To 2007 - 2008

    2007-2008 US West Point reports reveal Al Qaeda network behind NATO's so-called "freedom fighters." Extremists in Syria were behind Iraq War foreign terrorist influx, not Syrian government.


    October 25, 2012 - The discredited and now obscure, defected Syrian ambassador Nawaf Fares, had claimed mid-summer of 2012 that the Syrian government had been behind the influx of foreign terrorists that entered Iraq during the later phases of the US-British occupation of Iraq. These terrorists took part in campaigns of sectarian-driven violence that divided and destroyed an already devastated Iraq. Fares spectacularly claimed that he himself was involved in organizing terrorist death squads in a hamhanded attempt to implicate the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

    What Fares actually revealed however, was an invisible state within Syria, one composed of Saudi-aligned, sectarian extremism, operating not only independently of the government of President Assad, but in violent opposition to it. This "state-within-a-state" also so happens to be directly affiliated with Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood, the leading forces now fighting in Syria with significant Western-backing against the Syrian government.

    The documented details of this invisible terror state were exposed in the extensive academic efforts of the US Army's own West Point Combating Terrorism Center (CTC). Two reports were published between 2007 and 2008 revealing a global network of Al Qaeda affiliated terror organizations, and how they mobilized to send a large influx of foreign fighters into Iraq.

    CONTINUE . . .

     
    #11 poncho, Sep 28, 2013
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  12. poncho

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    Sophisticated U.S. Arms Flowing to Jihadists

    Fox News is reporting a stunning theft of U.S. arms by jihadist salafists in Libya. This news item will be made much of by critics of Obama on the right. However, military and government blunders, cost overruns, unneeded weapons systems, and general mis-management are par for the course.

    Of more relevance is the light this sheds on the U.S. arms being shipped into Syria. There have already been detailed press reports that there really are no significant controls that prevent these arms from reaching the most terror-prone and jihadist elements among the Syrian rebels, whose numbers are large in proportion to all the rebels. This decision to ship arms was foolhardy from the get-go, and now in light of the Libyan theft it looks even more ill-conceived.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/sophisticated-u-s-arms-flowing-to-jihadists/
     
    #12 poncho, Sep 29, 2013
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  13. poncho

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    McCain’s Moderates Join Al-Qaeda

    Senator John McCain was just sure he could pick moderates in Syria worth supporting. To prove his point he made a trip to Syria this spring to demonstrate how much the insurgents were just like us, struggling for democracy and equal rights for all.

    But his trip was organized by the Syria Emergency Task Force’s Mouaz Moustafa, who not long ago headed up the Libyan Council of North America. Both organizations are partly funded by the US State Department through a mirrored wilderness of NGO cutouts. But both have close ties to extremists fighting in each country. (In Libya, for example, Mustafa was with the people who killed US ambassador Stevens.) In McCain’s case, the “moderates” he met and was so attracted to in Syria tunred out to be kidnappers and thugs.

    Moustafa’s key staffer until recently was war lobbyist Elizabeth O’Bagy, whose day job was with the US military contractor funded neoconservative “think tank,” the Institute for the Study of War. Shockingly enough, this “think tank” never saw a potential war it did not want to turn into a real one. O’Bagy was the bagman for the State Department, delivering goodies to the Syrian rebels while delivering fantasies of Syrian moderates needing support to Capitol Hill and environs.

    She had many customers, including McCain and Secretary of State John Kerry, who were eager to cite her “studies” revealing that the rebels in Syria were by and large all moderates, with a few extremists who could simply be marginalized and ignored.

    But O’Bagy wrote as an independent think-tanker while being paid as a regime-change lobbyist in semi-secret. Very naughty.


    CONTINUE . . .


    Meet the Syrian Islamist Organization Controlling Senator McCain’s Agenda

    Senator McCain called Moustafa a “patriot”, but it’s not clear which country he’s a patriot of, since it’s not Mouaz Moustafa’s first time around on the regime change bus tour.
    Before the Syrian Emergency Task Force, Moustafa was the Executive Director of the Libyan Council of North America, which like the SETF existed to help push regime change. Before that, he mentions working with “rebels” in Egypt. On his Twitter feed, he denounces the overthrow of Morsi making it rather clear which side he was on.

    His Twitter account frequently features anti-Israel material, including calls for a Palestinian state with its capital in Jerusalem. On his YouTube account, he “liked” a video featuring Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, “crying while praying”.

    < snip >

    Predating his international period, Mouaz Moustafa did stints as a Field Organizer for the Democratic National Committee and a senate staffer. On Instagram, he calls himself a Freelance Revolutionary.

    Mouaz Moustafa, patriot of four countries, none of which is the United States, appears to be holding McCain’s hand on Syria through the Syrian Emergency Task Force. And the Syrian Emergency Task Force appears to be funded by “prominent” Syrians in the United States. It’s not technically a foreign organization. Technically.


    http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreen...anization-controlling-senator-mccains-agenda/

    McCain wanted to have sleepover with Syrian kidnappers


    Sen. John McCain wanted to spend the night with rebels linked to kidnappers during his visit to Syria in May, according to a pundit who has been advocating an American strike against Bashar al-Assad’s regime.

    Elizabeth O’Bagy, Syria team leader at the Institute for the Study of War, told The Daily Caller the Arizona Republican was so taken with his Sunni guerrilla hosts that he had to be “forced” by his security detail to leave.

    In an exclusive interview with TheDC, O’Bagy described the trip she arranged for the senator through the Syrian Emergency Task Force (SETF).

    < snip >

    O’Bagy wasn’t troubled by McCain’s desire to spend the night with a group formerly run by kidnappers. In the Beirut Daily Star, a former hostage held by the anti-regime Northern Storm Brigade identified one of the men in a photo with McCain as Mohammad Nour, the chief spokesman and photographer for the Northern Storm kidnappers. The former hostage told the paper he had seen Nour several times and been photographed by him during his captivity.

    CONTINUE . . .

    Hey look TND I found those missing Syrian "moderates" you and John McCain have been singing in praise of. Aren't you glad I was right about them all along now?
     
    #13 poncho, Sep 29, 2013
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