The Jews Did Crucify Christ

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Who does the Bible say crucified Christ?

    From a legal persepctive Pilate was the one who actually carried out the deed. Though he saw no reason for Jesus' death, yet he desired popularity with the Jews rather than doing justly, and so he gave in to their demand. As Peter said,

    "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together."

    From a providential perspective, it was the Father who crucified Christ. He is the one who set Him forth to be a propitiation for the sins of the world. As Isaiah said,

    "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."

    Notwithstanding, the Jews bore a direct guilt in the death of Christ for they were the ones who instigated his death. They were just as guilty as if they drove in the nails themselves. As Peter said,

    "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain."

    The Scriptures throughout portray the Jews as being responsible for Christ's death. In addition to the above passage we have:

    1. Zechariah: "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

    2. Stephen: "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers."

    3. Paul: "For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain."

    4. Paul again: "For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost."

    5. John: "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

    6. Above all, Jesus: "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
    and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

    But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

    When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

    Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

    And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them."

    Not one passage in the Bible says that "we all crucified the Lord." Not one passage in the Bible says that "our sins crucified the Lord." These trite cliches are but attempts to deflect the rage of the world, and especially of the Jews, against the plain teaching of the Bible.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. BrianT

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    *Certain* Jews, and *certain* Romans, crucified Christ. And his death happened because *all* of us are sinners and need a redeemer.

    It is wrong to say "Jews" in general crucified Christ, because that is not true. Jesus was Jewish, Mary was Jewish, the Apostles were Jews, the initial Church was mostly Jews.
     
  3. john6:63

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    But weren’t their multitudes of Jews that followed Jesus? Granted the mob that wanted Jesus crucified were Jews, but who’s to say that the Pharisees didn’t coerce a mob to convict Jesus, just to fulfill their goal of getting rid of Jesus, which actually fulfilled God’s plan. It was no surprise to Jesus that He was going to be crucified and He knew why…for the sins of the whole world. That means my sins and yours.

    I don’t blame the Jews, for God will use people, just as He did and will use nations to carry out His divine plan. Just my opinion.
     
  4. Jailminister

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    1Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
     
  5. Mark Osgatharp

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    BrianT,

    I understand that there were Jews who did not consent to Jesus' crucifixion.

    However, these Jews - those who accepted Jesus as the Messiah - were, for lack of a better term, "excommunicated" from the Jewish community at large and since that time have been viewed by the Jewish community as traitors and apostates. At this very day, though the Jews will embrace a broad variety of theological perspectives, they absolutely not allow that Jew can also be a Christian.

    Not only so, we have the statements of Zechariah and John that the Jews at the second coming are identified as they who "pierced" Him. Obviously, this does not mean that they are the ones who actually did the deed or that God holds them responsible for what their fathers did; for God has explicitly said (in Ezekiel) that He will not punish the children for the sins of the fathers.

    Rather, this means that because they follow in the tradition of their fathers they incur the same guilt to themselves. As Jesus told the Pharisees,

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

    Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

    O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

    Therefore I say, it is right to say that the Jews, generally speaking, crucified the Lord, with the understanding that there were exceptions to this general rule.

    Furthermore, I say that his death was not caused by our sins, for God, had He chosen, could have left us to die in our sins, as He did the wicked angels. Therefore it was God's love, not our sins, that caused the death of Christ. Which returns to the fact that, ultimately, it was the Father who crucified the Son. As it is truly written,

    "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us; and gave his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Let's not forget the "hand" behind it all
     
  7. john6:63

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    But wasn’t it because of Adam’s sin and the Fall that God promised a savior, in Jesus Christ before the world began. Our sins are a result of Adams sin.

    As far as the wicked angels go, there’s no second chance for them, for they’ve been in the presence of Almighty God.
     
  8. rbrent

    rbrent
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    Mark Osgatharp-

    How dare you read, believe and quote the Infallible Scriptures on the subject of who killed Jesus?

    We were all "coping" and "sharing" and "getting along" until you drew the sword of the Spirit and started slashing the humanistic arguments of the professing Christians who want an excuse to go see Mel's movie!

    Are you trying to force Baptists to be Bible Believers or what? [​IMG]

    "Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way." - Psalm 119:128
     
  9. Tim

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    Mark,

    Your statements are officially deemed as politically incorrect. No one must hold any Jews (not even the bad ones) liable for Christ's crucifixion lest it unleash a wave of antisemetism.

    Get your thinking straightened out---now.

    P.S. This is your final warning.
     
  10. Jailminister

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    Are we to hate Jews for doing what God had them do? I can not hate Judas, the son of perediton, for what he did, either. It was all in God's plan for OUR redemption.
     
  11. Ben Mills SsBG

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    I agree. I am a compleated Jew who is very very glad that Jesus the Christ was killed for ME.
     
  12. Johnv

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    The Jews did not crucify Christ. All sinners crucified Christ. That would include you and me. That would include everyone in the crowd that day. That would include everyone who wasn't in the crowd who didn't accept him at his word.

    If that sounds like a politically correct statement, well, bummer. If political correctness coincides with biblical correctness, then I stand accused.
     
  13. Mark Osgatharp

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    But the Bible actually says:

    "For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost."

    And,

    "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

    If Paul stating that "the Jews" crucified the Lord were not enough, John clearly distinguishes "every eye" from "they also which pierced him." So much for the "we all crucified Him" dodge.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  14. Ben Mills SsBG

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    Here is an important distinction must be made between the Physical Event and the Spiritual Event. I am a Jew and had NO part in the Physical Event because I was not there. I did, however, have a part in the Spiritual Event since I am a sinner. The Jews of the day were responsible for the Physical Event, mankind as a whole is responsible for the Spiritual Event.
     
  15. Mark Osgatharp

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    Ben,

    Every man is responsible for his own sin. I did not crucify Christ. I didn't even exist (at least not consciously) when Christ was on earth. I might have went along with His crucifixion had I been there, and would have if I had been in the same shoes as the Jews who did it, for I was cut from the same bolt of cloth as they. But the fact is, I wasn't there, I wasn't in their shoes, and I didn't crucify him.

    Yes, the Jews were responsible for the physical event. But it was God, not us, who was responsible for the spirtitual event. If we were responsible for the spiritual event, then it was us who made the sacrifice, and not God.

    Our sins did not mandate the death of Christ. God could have left us to die in our sins and been perfectly just. I was God's love that mandated His death.

    It was God who set Him forth to be a propitiation for our sins. Therefore it was God, not man, who determined the death of Christ.

    To God be the glory! Great things He hath done!

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  16. Ben Mills SsBG

    Ben Mills SsBG
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    Christ died to save us from the wrath of Hashem. Ergo we are the Spiritual Reason that Christ died
     
  17. rbrent

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    Johnv wrote:
    And based on which scriptures do you make the assertion that your view is “biblically correct?”

    I'm not seeking your opinion here. You said your position is "biblically correct" so let's have the scriptures which support your position.
     
  18. Johnv

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    To begin with, Jesus was scourged, crowned with thorns and nailed to the cross by Roman soldiers, most probably Syrian auxiliaries. He was condemned to crucifixion by Pontius Pilate, the Roman procurator. There wasn't a Jew in the bunch. Then Jesus was brought to Pilate by the Temple authorities, who wanted him crucified because they believed he threatened their tight grip on the people of Israel but were forbidden by Roman law to do the job themselves. They were of course, Jews, but they were not ordinary Jews. They ran the place and, as Christ charged, misused their authority and, allied with the Roman occupiers, ground their own people under their heels. But they did not crucify Christ. Nor did the Romans.

    The prophet Isaiah writing 700 years before the crucifixion said: "We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isaiah 53:6). When Jesus was crucified, he was crucified because all have sinned. He died on the cross for the sins of all.
     
  19. Doubting Thomas

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    Who or what is "Hashem"?
     
  20. rbrent

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    Well sure Johnv, I understand your desire to switch the argument away from who crucified Jesus since you cannot produce one scripture in either testament to support your position - But your statement was:

    "All sinners crucified Christ..."

    No one was discussing When Jesus was crucified or Why Jesus was crucified on this thread yet you state:

    "When Jesus was crucified, he was crucified because all have sinned. He died on the cross for the sins of all."

    No one was disputing that on this thread. This
    thread is about who killed Jesus - who
    crucified the Christ?

    You disagreed with placing the blame on the Jews and asserted your opinion that All sinners crucified Christ...,

    against the many scriptures quoted in which the Scriptures clearly reveal that God holds the Jews accountable for that act.

    Now, back on topic, how about the scriptures which support your opinion that All sinners crucified Christ...

    Would you be so kind as to list those scriptures for us?
     

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