The Journey Home

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    I happened to tune into EWTN tonight. The show was entitle "The Journey Home". The show focuses on individual who leave a different faith and become Roman Catholic. Tonight, the guest was Dr. Steven Miliam, MD.

    Dr. Miliam grew up as a Southern Baptist. He was baptised at age nine. He became a Roman Catholic at age 45. The second part of the program, viewers were encouraged to call in and ask questions. Two questions centered on baptistm nececcary for salvation and OSAS. Dr Miliam went on to say OSAS does not make sense, as you need the assuance of the (RC) Church for peace.

    My question here is why did Dr. Miliam forsake his Baptist faith.
    Was he not properly grounded.
    What should we do as preachers, and church members so our members do not stray?

    Salty
     
  2. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    There seems to be a natural inclination in all of us to try to earn our salvation. When you think about it, the idea of God's becoming a human being, dying on the cross, rising from the dead, atoning for sins is pretty far-fetched. The idea that one may gain heaven by simply believing all that and trusting the Christ to save--that's weird.

    That's why Paul said that spiritual things are spiritually discerned. When the Holy Spirit illuminates the mind, our perception of those crazy things in the first paragraph suddenly make sense.

    Until that point, the idea of getting into heaven based on our good deeds outweighing our bad deeds makes perfect sense. That's why the RCC's doctrine of salvation is so appealing.
     
  3. Alive in Christ

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    I watch EWTN fairly regulary. Its a good way to understand how the Catholic Church gets her deadly tenticles into her victims.

    There is a special place reserved for the Catholic Church and her propagandists.

    In addition to the guest you mentioned, I believe "The Journey Home" is hosted by an ex-evangelical. Cant remember his name right now.

    .....EDIT.....


    His name is Scott Hahn


    :godisgood:
     
    #3 Alive in Christ, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2009
  4. gb93433

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    Too many teach what Baptists believe and not what scripture teaches. Scripture will take care of a lot of faulty doctrine

    Why study a creed when you can study scripture.
     
  5. Salty

    Salty
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    So far no one has really answerd my question!
    As Baptists we say we believe what Scripture teaches. If we truly do so, then are are folks like
    Dr Miliam forsaking the truth?
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Take a look at Jesus and Judas.
     
  7. Priscilla Ann

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    I occasionally watch "The Journey Home". I actually think that it is Marcus Grodi who hosts the program, although Scott Hahn has appeared as a guest. I have many family members who are still in the Catholic Church; and it is helpful to hear what attracts people to Catholicism. They sometimes mention a "devotion to Mary" or that they "fell in love with the Eucharist". I have never heard one of their conversion stories that was convincing to me; however, I was a Catholic for many years, so I've been there, done that, and came to realize that it is a religion of works. I am just grateful that I came to the point where I trusted in Christ alone for my salvation and not the sacramental system of the Catholic Church.
     
  8. Priscilla Ann

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    You are so right. The idea of getting into heaven based on our good deeds is appealing. I remember trying to explain salvation to my Catholic mother. When I asked her why Jesus died, her reply was, "So that we could work our way to heaven." I love my mother so dearly, but it makes me sad that I've never been able to make her see that Jesus already paid for our sins. She and my father are devout Catholics. How do you reach someone who is trusting in their religion? To them, the Catholic Church speaks for God.
     
  9. Marcia

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    Christians can be deceived. Look at the NT -- warning after warning about deception and false teaching. In the OT, the Israelites were warned about the pagan nations and their gods, and they still fell for it many times.

    Evil things are usually appealing and people are able to rationalize.

    Several evangelicals have become Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox over the past few years. In a few cases I know of, the reasons I heard were not good ones. That's because people rationalize and believe what they want to believe.
     
  10. HankD

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    He might have been "grounded" in the Scriptures at one time, however

    1 Timothy 1
    4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
    5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
    6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
    7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.​

    The Scribes and Pharisees were "grounded" in the Scriptures and , Jesus speaking of their preliminary acceptance of John the Baptist said:​

    John 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.​

    But who really knows the motive of this man, only God and maybe not even the man himself knows and understands what caused this departure.​

    What can we do? Again, who knows. there will always be apostacy, defection and those seduced by the error of works.​

    Just keep praying and preaching/teaching the Word with "a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned".

    And be careful for yourself:​

    Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.​

    HankD​
     
  11. Jim1999

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    For the most part, the local Roman Catholic Churches and priests have become more open to the people, contradicting what fundamentalists have been preaching for years. The priests are open to theological thought, although not changing their doctrine, but allowing other thoughts without hardline contradiction. This has opened doors to others.

    Example. The local priest and I sit in the local cafe and enjoy a cuppa and a friendly discussion about theology and church practices. We remain good friends, and he comes back for more.

    If someone is not rooted and perhaps wavering a little in their beliefs, I can see this as an open door to possibility. Remember, the RC church does preach Jesus.......among other things.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. Priscilla Ann

    Priscilla Ann
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    Jim:

    You are correct that the RC church does preach Jesus...among other things. Unfortunately, it's those "other things" that can cause people to trust in something other than Christ alone for their salvation. In your conversations with the local priest, have you visited about those "other things" (Mary, purgatory, etc.)? Just wondering...

    By the way, I really enjoy your posts. I'll bet you're a great coffee buddy!
     
  13. donnA

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    Theres no guarentee that all baptist believe the truth, and this one obviously didn't. Does that mean baptists in general, or that all baptists fail to believe the truth? No.
    I know many baptists who are baptist in name only, refuse to consider traditional baptists doctrines, they don't care if what they do beleive contradicts scripture, and don't care that they can't show what they believe in scripture, one once told me, 'it's not in there, but I believe it anyway'.
    Does this mean baptits don't believe what scripture teaches? No, it just means there are some who do not, it does not mean all baptists.
     
  14. Jim1999

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    Priscilla Ann, Thank you kindly. Yes, we talk about many things that are alien to the Church of Rome. He knows that I have a deep knowledge about his church, but I am not confrontational. It is far better to discuss the truth of the Word and show appreciation for his "ministry".

    I shared a funeral with him, at the request of the family, and he showed far more liberty to me than I have ever experienced.

    I like to ask questions until I eventually reach the question that tends to stop them in their tracks and think about it.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  15. donnA

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    they use His name thats about it, they do not preach the gospel of salvation from scripture, if they did there'd be no purgatory,no baptism for salvation, no works based salvation.
    Change what God says about salvation and theres no salvation to be found in the false methods.
    So, use His name, yes, but in scriptural truth, no.
     
  16. Jim1999

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    You might be surprised. I suppose you say the same about the Church of England. I was saved in the Church of England and not a Baptist Church. I learned the bulk of my theology in the Church of England. She sprinkles infants, she has Friday confessions and a formal service on Sunday direct from the Common Prayer book, liturgists and a priesthood.

    Not every believer is a Baptist!

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  17. Priscilla Ann

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    Jim:

    I try to be nonconfrontational, but sometimes I do get caught up in the moment so I have to weigh my words before I speak. Fortunately, my parents and I have a great relationship and are now able to freely discuss spiritual issues with mutual respect.

    Asking questions sounds like a great way to spark a good discussion. Perhaps I need to ask more questions, and then just listen...

    Have a good evening, Jim.
     
  18. donnA

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    Not every believer cares if what they believe comes from the bible or not either.
    Fact is rcc teaches salvation is through them and their rules, and leave out what scripture says.
     
  19. Jim1999

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    A lot of people jump off the diving board before they make sure there is water in the pool.

    If you start with the negatives, that is where you will end. Start with the positive thing, such as the deity of Christ and His personal invite to salvation. This will confirm who Christ is; which they do. It will also confirm that salvation is in Him alone. You automatically are bypassing all their false concepts without confrontation.

    Cheers, and good night. I am off as well,

    Jim
     
  20. HankD

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    Perhaps it is because I am a former Catholic but I eventually become confontational.

    I agree that being "Christo-centric" (a now Catholic term) is a good starting place.

    However with the current movement of the Church of Rome to make Mary the Co-Redemptrix with Christ (no, that is not a typo) and most recently the Mediatrix of all God's graces is intolerable to me and difficult for me to sidestep or ignore.

    Now I love Mary and honor her as the mother of our Lord's humanity but do not impute attributes of deity to her nor worship her.

    As a child I was not told the difference between "worship" and "veneration" and was made to pray to Mary as if she were omnipresent and coud hear and answer the millions of prayers of all who petitioned her.

    There are 5 doctrines of Mary (4 of which must be held under penalty of ex-communication), the 5th (Mediatrix of all graces) will probably be promulgated soon under "ex cathedra" and binding upon all Catholics.

    But I agree that these deluded souls need to be freed from this religion of bondage and it is best to be gentle.

    The Church of Rome is the father of all of what George Orwell called "doublethink":

    doublethink- The power to hold two completely contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accept both of them.

    Here is how Winston Smith described doublethink in the novel 1984:


    For instance the Church of Rome holds that the bread and wine of the mass are transubstantiated into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ at consecration (this is not the "doublethink" part, although it probably qualifies)

    On the other hand the Eucharist celebration is officially called the "unbloody" sacrifice of the mass in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

    They both cannot be true - either there is real blood involved or not (unless one practices doublethink). Either transubstantiation is true and the other is not or vice versa.

    In actuality neither concept is true along with myriad other doctrines of the traditions of men of this fallen church.


    HankD
     
    #20 HankD, Apr 5, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009

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