The "Judge Not" Heresy

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    How did anyone ever come to idea that it is wrong to judge other people? The Bible teaches no such thing.

    The Bible does teach that it is wrong to judge wrongly. The passages that are quoted to prove that it is wrong to judge are not about judging per se, but against judging wrong judgment.

    In reality, there are many commandments in the Bible to judge. Jesus, for example, commanded us to,

    "judge righteous judgment."

    The great irony of the "judge not" heresy is that no one actually practices it, because all of us judge one another all the time. And those who throw the "judge not" philosophy around are often the most judgmental people of all. They are much like the men of Sodom who, when Lot rebuked them for their wickedness, judged him and said,

    "This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will need be a judge."

    Do you understand the significance of that? Those who say we should not judge others are not following the example or commandment of Jesus Christ, because Jesus Christ regularly judged other people and commanded his followers to judge other people.

    Those who hold to the "judge not" heresy are following the example and philosphy of the ancient queer rapists after whose city the awful crime of sodomy is named.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    Mark,

    Could we say that we should practice discernment?

    Judgement can be without insite. As in the case of "Judge not lest ye be judged"
     
  3. Dr.Tim

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    It is a good topic and I often think of this. Discernment can be a terrible thing if you do not properly handle what you have discerned. As a 21 yr old preacher, I saw many that I truly KNEW were fakes (and time has shown they were)and in college and seminary I knew there were somethign wrong with some of them who were pastoring. I was constantly warned about "judging" and had that "touch not mine anointed" passage hanging over my head.
    Judging others the WRONG way has definitely been a problem for me and I can only say that I was WRONG and needed to ask forgiveness. "Righteous judgment"?? Yes I am sure that there is such a thing and the words above confirm it. I just think this is a weak spot for me. I dont do many things that other pastors do. Money and fame has never been something I have strived or reached for. I can take a good guess and say that I am one guilty of this wrongful judgment than anyone else you will find on this board. That's a prayer request too.

    tim
     
  4. Artimaeus

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    How am I supposed to figure out if y'all are right or wrong if I can't make a judgement. [​IMG]
     
  5. Soulman

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    Good post Mark!
     
  6. HankD

    HankD
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    As Mark pointed out, even according to the passage which is quoted - "judge not", judgement is conditioned upon certain factors and is indeed allowed and in fact required. The sermon on the mount restriction is against the wrong kind of judgment, judgment for the wrong reasons.

    Why judge?

    To help one's brother, to judge in a remedial way, not punitive (although that may be involved at the church level). To be a physician and a healer rather than a judge and jury. To bring the erring one back to the flock even if rebuke is required.

    To warn the flock of the wolf (sometimes in sheep's clothing). To watch for the "false prophet" and search the Scriptures to judge if "these things are so".

    The strong are required to discern the weak ones and protect them by bearing their infirmity.

    Etc, Etc...

    It's all about love.


    HankD
     
  7. Gold Dragon

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    I recently discussed this passage with someone in the thread:

    T.V. Commercial: United Church of Christ

    Judge yourself with the standard you use before you judge others. It is only when we see our own sinfulness that we can have the humility, love and gentleness required to approach our brothers' sin.
     
  8. HankD

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    And the courage to rebuke him/her for complicity in evil.

    HankD
     
  9. mcgyver

    mcgyver
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    Isn't it interesting that if there is one verse of scripture that the unbeliever knows; that it will be "Judge not lest ye be judged".....

    I think that this verse has been used as a stick by those who are in sin to beat Christians into submission; to try and justify their actions.

    I agree that we can not judge the attitude of one's heart, for that is God's purview, and I also agree that we must not be hypocritical in what we do.
    However I see no place in scripture that says we can't judge sin....as sin! In fact we are admonished in Eph 5:11 to expose the "unfruitful works of darkness".

    I agree with Hank's post above that we need to start having the courage we need to correct those who are in sin.
     
  10. Gold Dragon

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    And the courage to rebuke him/her for complicity in evil.

    HankD
    </font>[/QUOTE]Courage to rebuke sin and evil is something the Pharisees Jesus was addressing in this passage had no problem with. I'm not saying that courage in rebuke isn't needed, just that lack of it usually is not the problem.
     
  11. Pete

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    I wouldn't call the "Judge Not" idea heresy (who would have thought, there is something out there I wouldn't call heresy... ;) ) however as soon as someone comes out with "Judge not" or "Don't touch the Lord's anointed" or "Why can't we all get along" or something about "infallibility" it starts off alarm bells this way.
     
  12. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Judging ourselves first then others by the standard of God's Word is legitimate.

    However, I have known three kinds of trouble making judges-

    1- those who judge based on their own "high" standards,

    2- those who go self-righteously searching for people to judge by biblical standards,

    3- and some who go looking for people to judge by their own standards.
     
  13. HankD

    HankD
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    Agreed, judgment for all the wrong reasons. Sometimes known as the Torquemada Syndrome Personality (TSP)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torquemada

    HankD
     
  14. Baptist Vine

    Baptist Vine
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    Yes, there are some things you, we, are supposed to judge.

    But the whole point of Jesus sermon in the instance that scripture was spoken was to warn of a kind of judging one could engage in only to their own peril. And you've turned it around to conclude that judge not really means the exact opposite - judge, and judge strongly, and do it all the time.

    And what has any of that to do with Sodom and Gomorah?

    The fact that you use so descriptive a phrase as "...ancient queer rapists..." indicates you have a specific concern in mind, but you are not addressing it directly.

    Does your actual grievance concern situations where you have been accused, as many of us have, of being "intolerant" when you speak what the scriptures plainly teach in areas of sexual immorality?
     
  15. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Baptist Vine,

    You said,

    Jesus did not say "judge not". You are taking two words out of a sentence that have no meaning apart from that sentence. That is just as wrong as if someone used the words "labor not for meat that perisheth" to prove that we aren't supposed to work for our daily bread, or moreso if we used the words "labor not" in that sentence to prove we aren't supposed to labor at all.

    You left off the most important aspect of all - judge accurately. Judge accurately, strongly, all the time. I would say that is a fair evalution of what the Bible teaches on the matter. You also said,

    My greviance is that sinners and heretics of every stripe have taken up the "judge not" heresy in defence of their errors. The significance of the sodomite rapists is that they are a glowing example of the ridiculousness of maintaining that there is something improper about judging evil behavior.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    I've conducted an informal and non-scientific poll for the 21 years
    i've been on the internet. The favorite verse of Christians
    is John 3:16; the favorite verse of non-Christians that they
    like to quote to Christians is Matthew 5:7.

    John 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his only
    begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
    should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.


    Matthew 7:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Iudge not, that ye be not iudged.

    (Recall that in the original KJV that "I" served the
    vowel function that "I" now serves and the constant
    function that "J" now serves.)

    BTW, the main charge Christians get from
    agnostics and athiests is "self-righteous
    hypocrite" not "judgmental".
     
  17. Pitipat

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    Ed Edwards;
    I am confronted with this daily, on whether to remark "thats very interesting" or to rebuke the heresy. The scriptue is very clear to me as to how Christ and the Apostles handled this situation. Needless to say I have few meaningful relationships (friends). I have heard it said often that nothing like truth severs relationsships like truth
     
  18. Logos1560

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    Yes, the Bible teaches that we should judge rightly and not wrongly.

    a weightier matter of the law--judgment
    [ye ought to judge]

    Matt. 23:23b and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone

    Acts 4:19b Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye

    Luke 7:43b And he said unto them, Thou hast rightly judged.

    John 7:24 Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    1 Cor. 7:25b I give my judgment

    1 Cor. 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged

    Phil. 1:9 And this pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment.
     

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