The Kingdom Will be Restored to Israel

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jerry Shugart, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart
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    The Apostles were with the Lord Jesus after His resurrection while He spoke of the things concerning the kingdom:

    "To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God" (Acts 1:6)

    So if anyone could be considered an expert on the kingdom it was them and they believed that the Lord would "restore" the kingdom to Israel:
     
    "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again (apokathistēmi) the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).

    This Greek word apokathistēmi means "to restore to its former state, to be in its former state" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    Since the kingdom of which the Apostles spoke was originally an "earthly" kingdom then when it will be resored it will once again be an "earthly" kingdom.

    It is not difficult to understand that the kingdom which will be resoted to Israel is this one:

    "Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki.2:12).
     
  2. Gup20

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    Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
    6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


    Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
    23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
    24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
    25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
    26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
    27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
    28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.
    30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
    31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

    Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

    Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant [is] with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

    Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

    Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
    9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
    10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

    Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
    19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.
    20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

    Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
    10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac.
    11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
    12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.​

    The scripture is clear that the "seed" who is referenced in the Abrahamic promises (which include the land) is Jesus Christ. So this inheritance is to Christ and those who are in Christ. The scripture talks about Abraham being the father of many nations (not one nation - the nation of Israel) but it talks about Ishmael being the father of ONE nation with 12 princes. This is an allegory for the 12 tribes of Israel.
     
  3. Jerry Shugart

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    Gup, so are you saying that the Apostles were wrong for expecting that the kingdom would be restored to Israel?

    In regard to the "land" please consider the promise which God made to David:

    "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David…I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).

    The same promise was repeated later by the prophet Amos:

    "And I will bring again the captivity of my people …And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Amos 9: 14, 15).

    This passage speaks of the land which God gave Israel. Therefore we can understand that the Lord has made promises to Israel in respect to the promised land that have not yet been fulfilled.There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and have not "been pulled up out of their land" (unless that is being fulfilled now).

    Obviously this promised was not fulfilled at the Cross.
     
  4. convicted1

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    Very good post!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  5. Gup20

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    Yes.

    Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

    Jesus didn't come to restore the Kingdom of Israel, but the kingdom of God.

    I agree, it is obvious that the promise (land) was not fulfilled at the cross. Though, the apostles and many followers believed it would be. In fact, it wasn't until Acts when God shows Peter that faith is for Gentiles also that they start to "get it" - he's not talking about Israel in the flesh, but Israel in the spirit. The promises were to Christ and apply to those who in Christ. But I will concede that typically the promises were dual - to the one being promised and the "seed" or "Israel" .. those who were heir's according to the promise -

    Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

    Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
     
  6. Jerry Shugart

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    As I said, this is the kingdom that the Apostles thought was to be restored to Israel:

    "Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki.2:12).

    And that is exactly the same kingdom which will be given to the Lord Jesus. Gabriel told Mary:

    "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father, David. And He shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end" (Lk. 1:32,33).

    The Lord Jesus Himself tells us exactly when He will began to rule from His throne hereon the earth:

    "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

    When He comes THEN shall He sit upon His throne. And since the word "come" refers to coming to earth that means that it will be THEN, when He is on earth, when He will begin to rule.
    The promise was in regard to those to whom God had given the land and that was national Israel--"I will bring AGAIN the captivity of my people.":

    "And I will bring again the captivity of my people …And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Amos 9: 14, 15).

    And those words are a re-statement of the promise which God made to David:

    "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David…I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).

    That promise will stand because God says that He will not alter the promises which He made to David:

    "I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant…Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).

    So it will happen in the future that God will bring national Israel back to the promised land and once there that country will move no more!
     
  7. Gup20

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    Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
    25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
    26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

    If there is a "Jerusalem" (denoting the capital city of David) from below which now is and is in bondage to The Law, and a Jerusalem from above which is free, and we know that the PROMISES were made regarding the Jerusalem that is from above, what would keep us from understanding that ALL of the scriptures you list are not referencing the "Jerusalem which is from above" rather than the earthly Jerusalem?

    Jesus said to his disciples:

    Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Clearly, this wasn't the earthly kingdom, but the kingdom of heaven.

    I would venture a guess to say that the promises you've mentioned are in regard to God's heavenly kingdom, not the earthly kingdom. I would hate to be on the wrong side of that one - again - just as the disciples and Jews were 2000 years ago.
     
  8. Jerry Shugart

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    In that case you have gussed wrong because the Lord Jesus said:

    "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

    When He comes THEN shall He sit upon His throne. And since the word "come" refers to coming to earth that means that it will be THEN, when He is on earth, when He will begin to rule.

    The prophet Ezekiel says that the Lord brought him to the "land of Israel" (Ez.40:2)and was placed on a high mountain where he saw a structure like a city on the south. Then he was brought to a "temple" (41: 1) and its "inner court" (43:5) where the Lord spoke to him:

    "And He said unto me, son of man, the place of My throne, and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places" (Ez.43:7).

    Here the Lord Jesus says that He will "dwell in the midst of the children of Israel". That fits perfectly with what is said here:

    "And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob My servant…and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore" (Ez.37:25,26).

    The Lord will dwell with the children of Israel in the land which He gave to Jacob. That land is on the earth.
    Of coirse it was an earthly kingdom. The words of Peter in his first epistle refers to this "coming", and it happened at the "transfiguration" on the holy mount:

    "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with Him in the holy mount" (2 Pet.1:16-18).

    In each gospel that records the words of the Lord Jesus saying that some of His Apostles will see Him in the kingdom the events of the "transfiguration" immediately follow. On the holy mount "His face did shine like the sun, and His rainment was as white as the light" (Mt. 17:2).

    The event at the transfiguration fulfilled the words of the Lord Jesus when He said that some of His Apostles would "not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom".
     
    #8 Jerry Shugart, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2011
  9. savedbymercy

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    No, but it just was not the Israel they thought it was [Rom 9:6]. They were thinking Abraham's Physical descendants according to the Flesh, but it was the Israel according the Spirit.

    You see, Israel according to the Flesh, Abraham's descendants merely by physical birth, they were not the Children of God. Rom 9:8


    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  10. Jerry Shugart

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    It will be Israel as a nation that will be brought back to the land:

    "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land" (Ez.36:22-24).

    These verses are not speaking of any so-called "spiritual Israel" because it was Israel according to the flesh who profaned the Holy Name of the Lord. the body of Christ has never been a "curse" so the following verses are not speaking of anyone other than Israel according to the flesh:

    "And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    jerry

    :

    Rom 9:8

    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.





    Sure a Spiritual Nation of believers in Christ, comprised of both jew and gentile.

    God has nothing for Abraham's children according to the flesh, they are not even God's Children..
     
  12. Jerry Shugart

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    I do not know why you failed to respond to what I said here:

    It will be Israel as a nation that will be brought back to the land:

    "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land" (Ez.36:22-24).

    These verses are not speaking of any so-called "spiritual Israel" because it was Israel according to the flesh who profaned the Holy Name of the Lord. The body of Christ has never been a "curse" so the following verses are not speaking of anyone other than Israel according to the flesh:

    "And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).

    I look forward to your response.

    Thanks!
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    jerry

    I did with Rom 9:6-8 The israel that had promises of God made to them, were not Abraham's Children according to the flesh, for they are not the Children of God. All the promises of God Ezk 36:22-24 Zech 8,13 are fulfilled to Abraham's Spiritual Seed in Christ 2 Cor 1:20

    20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    Gal 3:29

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
     
  14. Jerry Shugart

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    The following is one of the "promises" which God made to David:

    "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David…I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).

    This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

    "For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up" (Jer.24:6).

    Here we read God saying "I will bring them AGAIN to this land."

    The only entity that can be brought to the land AGAIN is the nation of Israel. It is impossible that this verse is referring to a so-called "spiritual Israel" because that entity was NEVER in the land to begin with so it cannot be brought to the land AGAIN!

    Therefore we can understand that the Lord has made promises to the nation of Israel in respect to the promised land that have not yet been fulfilled.There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and have not been "plucked up" out of their land" (unless that is being fulfilled now). So it is obvious that not "all" of the promises made to Israel in regard to the promised land were fulfilled in the first century.
     
  15. savedbymercy

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    jerry

    The following is one of the "promises" which God made to David:

    "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David…I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).

    This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

    2 Cor 1:20

    20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    Gal 3:29

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    The physical jews of Abraham's descendants are not the Children of God ! Rom 9:8

    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  16. Jerry Shugart

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    You keep repeating the same thing but you refuse to deal with what I said about bringing an entity to the land AGAIN!

    You refused to deal with what I said here:

    It will be Israel as a nation that will be brought back to the land:

    "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land" (Ez.36:22-24).

    Now please answer this question. Is the "house of Israel" which profaned the name of the Lord "spiritual Israel"? If your answer is "no" then please tell me who is being referred to as the "house of Israel"?

    Now please consider the following passage:

    "And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).

    Who is the "house of Judah and house of Israel" in this passage who are said to be a "curse among the heathen"? Is it "spiritual Israel"? If your answer is "no" then who is being referred to as the "house of Judah and the house of Israel"?

    Thanks!
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    jerry

    Of course, it is the Truth ! God has no promises to the Physical seed of Abraham, they are not even the children of God Rom 9:8


    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  18. Jerry Shugart

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    Of course you refuse to answer my questions.

    Why is that?
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    They are answered in Christ ! All the promises of God to His People are fulfilled in Christ and the Church. Thats who the Prophets meant in their prophecies 1 Pet 1:10,11

    Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

    10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

    11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    2 Cor 1:19-20

    19For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

    20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    Now how many is ALL the Promises of GOD ? You have showed me several promises of God He made through the Prophets to Israel. They are part of the ALL the Promise of God to be fulfilled by Christ..
     
  20. Jerry Shugart

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    Here is one of the promises of God which you refuse to deal with, a promise made to David:

    "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David…I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).

    This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

    "For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up" (Jer.24:6).

    Here we read God saying "I will bring them AGAIN to this land."

    The only entity that can be brought to the land AGAIN is the nation of Israel. It is impossible that this verse is referring to a so-called "spiritual Israel" because that entity was NEVER in the land to begin with so it cannot be brought to the land AGAIN!

    But you "alter" the promise made to Daivid and say it is not in regard to the entity that will brought AGAIN to the land but instead to s "spiritul Israel." However, God says in no uncertain terms that He will not "alter" his promise to David:

    "I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant…Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).

    You quote verses which you do not even understand and therefore come to wrong conclusions. If you are right then God did indeed alter the things which went out of His lips and He also lied to David.
     

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