The KJV Issue – Faith Vs. Facts

AV1611Jim:Ok fellas in the mv camp. Tell me in plain ameri-speak, WHAT is the word of God?

The Scriptures, in any valid version.

What is a valid version? A version that follows its sources closely, those sources being the ancient manuscripts of the writings recognized as God's word for centuries.


If it is this book AND that book AND that book AND that book AND that book...ad infinitum, you leave me with utter confusion because they are NOT the same.

NO two English BVs are the same. And for that matter, the Four Gospels within the same version give four different accounts of the same events. But, with that knowlwdge, men have recognized them as Scripture from the gitgo. And whatever principles are applied for men to believe all four Gospels MUST BE APPLIED to the differing BVs or we're operating from a DOUBLE STANDARD. And the differences between versions are generally less than those between the Gospels in one version.

My faith is in ONE book. I will give you the latitude and grace to believe anything you wish to believe. That is the essence of liberty of conscience. At least allow us the same.

If those who use only the KJV would ALL keep it to themselves, fine. But every day, there's always someone popping up & saying, "Yo' readin' de NIV? Yue dont got no REEL BIBAL dere!" That's when they've started a battle.


BUT NOOOOOOOOOO! Lame appeals like ( "The bible doesn't say that the kjv...blah blah blah." )do not move me one iota. Scriptures do not mention any of the mv's either. So what? Big deal.
AVBunyan is right. We DO trust the KJB by faith. No other way YOU can trust your mv's but by faith.

But it's not BLIND faith. We see the apostles and JESUS HIMSELF quoting OT Scripture from a version that's not the same one translated into the KJV. And we believe GOD CAN DO ANYTHING. he is NOT limited to just one version.

More empirical, physical proof...Since every Christian believes God has supplied His word in English for a long time now, we see NO TWO ENGLISH BVS ARE ALIKE. If you don't believe Tyndale's Bible, etc. are the word of God in English, then you don't really believe God has preserved His word in English, and that He's limited.

Also, we do NOT believe He retired in 1611; we believe He's still on His throne as He said, overseeing the universe, presenting His word in various languages, updating it as He causes/allows languages to change, providing it AS HE CHOOSES, HOW HE CHOOSES.


Fact is...YOU can't prove any of them are perfect either. And IF you say that none of them are perfect then by default you just relegated the Scriptures to limbo because they claim for themselves perfection. And as for me and my house, we will NOT go down THAT road.

But what we use are TRANSLATIONS. By its very nature, a translation simply cannot be absolutely perfect. No language will translate 100% into another.And many Greek and Hebrew words/phrases have multiple meanings, same as many English words/phrases do. This is the crux of many of the KJVO arguments...they say the KJV's rendering alone is right & no other is, without having one iota of PROOF from the context or any other authoritative source.

Thus, we have KJVOs telling us that the MVs that read, "Work diligently" in 2 Timothy 2:15 are wrong. There are two FACTS against this point. First, the Greek word here is the infinitive "spoudazo", which means, "work diligently, strive, give great effort". Second, the word 'study' was sometimes applied to diligent work, while NOW we usit to mean, 'application of the mental faculties with the purpose of acquiring knowlwedge'. NEITHER rendition is wrong, but this is the type of flak we often get from the KJVO crowd.

If the HOLY SPIRIT has led YOU to use only the KJV, fine, but remember He has various jobs for various believers. I often meet and witness to non-Americans, especially Canadian truck drivers from the Quebec area who often don't have a great command of English...and if I were to read from the KJV to them, they wouldn't understand it.(Before anyone asks, yes, I've tried!) But, if preaching to an elderly audience, I primarily use the KJV because that's the version most familiar to them. BUT...I heve other versions ready in case they ask for me to use one.

Summary...KJVO is a myth, an incorrect, man-made doctrine.

 

AV1611Jim:Have you SEEN the pictures of so-called "christians" AT A ccm CONCERT in their halter tops, tattos, and piercings? I can with all confidence assure you they are not KJB people.

In those cases, the BV(s) they may use is of no consequence. If it was, then the KJV would look awfully bad, as it's the version used by Jungle Jimmy Jones, David Koresh, Heaven's Gate, and umpteen hundred other cults or charlatans. Same with heaping scorn upon the translators of any given valid version...ALL have sinned & come short of the glory of GOD. He can use anyone for anything.

 

av1611jim said "Ok fellas in the mv camp. Tell me in plain ameri-speak, WHAT is the word of God?"

the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set forth by men of our profession, (for we have seen none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.

av1611jim said "If it is this book AND that book AND that book AND that book AND that book...ad infinitum, you leave me with utter confusion because they are NOT the same."

No, we are not left with utter confusion. We are left with utter confirmation.

 

Gee I wonder if there is a Ming dynasty version only controversy going on in China, or a Queen Isabella version only going on in all of the spanish speaking countries?

 

The divisive spirit is not on the KJB side but the mv side.
The spirit you have in America is a result of people turning their back on the KJV.

 

Quote:

"The spirit you have in America is a result of people turning their back on the KJV."

 

The divisive spirit is not on the KJB side but the mv side.
The spirit you have in America is a result of people turning their back on the KJV.

Amen PSR.2 !!!!

Don't let the mockers and scoffers turn your head.
II Tim. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

Definition of KJVO;
King James Version OPPOSER.

 

The word of God is the inscripturated revelation, contained in the 66 books of the Christian Scriptures. The fact that there are several good translations of it does not cause confusion; it brings clarity, as those who routinely use multiple translations knows. The differences are minimal and are in wording, not in doctrine. There is no change in doctrine.

 

Wrong..100% wrong! Any time you remove the name of God or his Son or the blood atonement you change doctrine.

mv's do this over and over.

 

Never mind that Psr2 hasn't proven that the KJV is the sole standard for judging.

 

psr.2 said "Any time you remove the name of God or his Son or the blood atonement you change doctrine."

You mean like this?

Phil 1:14 NIV "Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly."

Phil 1:14 KJV "And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear."

 

Amen, Brother Natters -- Preach it!

 

So in other words, your question was not an honest one since you have no interest in hearing a truthful answer that doesn't conform to your predetermined conclusion.

I will answer your question anyway... with an illustration.

If I asked you today and one month from today to give me directions to your church from the other side of town, what are the chances that you would use the exact same words? If your words were different would that mean that I should suspect that one set of directions was false? Which would represent your "word" on how I should get to church? Would it cease to be your word if you mentioned a landmark the first time twice but three times later?

It would be your true word as long as it gave an accurate account of how to reach the church.

It is not necessary to use the same words to express the same truth.

OK. Get your KJVO brethren to stop lying to people by condemning faithful versions of the Bible and there will be no reason for us to confront your error.

So you acknowledge that the KJV actually isn't your final authority. The KJV does affirm different versions. OT quotes in the NT are almost never exactly worded the same... some are significantly different like Luke 4:18 v Isaiah 61:1.

Everytime the KJV refers to scripture or inspiration it is referring to what the original writer had in view... the scriptures in a language and version different from the KJV.

 

Scott;
The spirit with which you and your brethren have replied to me is EXACTLY why we of the KJB camp prefer to openly expose your inequities and misrepresentations.
EVERY man I know who is a KJB believer would NEVER reply to you and your kind in the fashion which has been displayed by your camp in replying to me.
Now when you reply to this, get the quotes accurate.
Jim

 

Amen av1611jim that is the spirit of the age. Because there are so many spineless folks who will not take a stand. I'm glad God had some in 1611 too.

I don't have to prove the KJB is the word of God God did.

 

No "inequities and misrepresentations". Your own words indict you.

You must be kidding... or referring to the fact that I was easy on you. KJVO's routinely question non-KJVO's faith in the Bible, spirituality, and even their salvation.

All I did was quote your words and comment on what you said or ask questions.

The quotes weren't inaccurate the first time... you simply don't like seeing the implications of what you yourself wrote.

 

Are you referring to our Baptist forebearers who rejected new Anglican translation or to the Anglicans who persecuted those Baptists and eventually outlawed their beloved Geneva Bible?

The spirit of the age? You mean the spirit that very recently gave us the false doctrine of KJVOnlyism... as opposed to the historic, fundamental doctrine on the Bible?