The KJV1611 is Alexandrian

I'm sure there will be ice cream in the KJB and sweeter than Honey, but when you scream, I hope we all scream for Ice Cream' Call it what you want but don't change it like the Alexandrian Messucripts.

 

OOPs my badd Manuscripts

 

My Faith in my Lord AND my Bible remains unshaken! The problem with many in here(no names mentioned OR implied)would appear to be that "much learning doth make thee mad..."! I haven't even the slightest amount of doubt that the position I hold to is not only correct....but also the truth.I say...let every man(or woman) be fully persuaded in his or her own mind as to what the truth of this matter really is.We'll all have to answer for OURSELVES regarding what we profess,believe,and practice at the JSOC.The Lord will have the final word on all of us and He'll sort out the truth from the lies.I live with that expectation and realization every day of my life while looking for that'Blessed Hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ'.I'm thankful I have the "forever settled" written Word of God to base my faith and hope on each and every day.I just hope that the day NEVER comes when common sense and a humble heart before God gets "educated" out of me.If it ever does,I may be better off jumping off a cliff somewhere and sparing the world from having another proud and haughty spirit to have to tolerate.That's my two cents worth in this thread.Good day gentleman.

Greg Sr.

 

By the way....I still say that those "footnotes" found in most all of the modern versions that I have ever seen literally RAVAGE the authority of the translations they appear in. I'd be afraid to hand any new convert a book that refutes itself from the INSIDE OUT. Funny thing is...the edition of the KJV that I read and study from doesn't contain ANY of those kind of footnotes(Thank GOD!!)Okay...add another two cents....that'll make four! My first comments in here were rendered at no charge. You may now resume the ongoing circular arguments.Do NOT adjust your set.

Greg Sr.

 

At Hebrews 6:1, Backus maintained that the 1611 KJV has in the margin "a literal translation of the Vulgate 'the word of the beginning of Christ'" (Reformed Roots, p. 147). The 1611 KJV at Mark 7:3 has an alternative translation, the literal meaning of the Greek, and the translation of a church father: "Or, diligently, in the Original, with the fist; Theophilact, up to the elbow." The KJV translators put the following marginal note in the 1611 for “mercies” at Acts 13:34: “Greek, [hosios] holy, or just things; which word in the Septuagint, both in the place of Isaiah 55:3, and in many others, use for that which is in the Hebrew mercies.“ At Acts 13:18, the 1611 KJV has another marginal note that refers to the Septuagint and that also refers to Chrysostom. At Luke 10:22, the marginal note in the 1611 stated: "Many ancient copies add these words, 'And turning to his disciples, he said.'" At Luke 17:36, the marginal note in the 1611 stated: "This 36 verse is wanting in most of the Greek copies." At 2 Peter 2:2, the marginal note in the 1611 noted: "Or, lascivious wages, as some copies read." At Acts 25:6, the marginal note in the 1611 was the following: "as some copies read, no more then eight or ten days." At John 18:13, the marginal note in the 1611 gave a conjectural emendation found in the Bishops' Bible: "And Annas sent Christ bound unto Caiaphas the high priest." Other marginal notes that gave variant readings in the 1611 can be found at Ezra 10:40, Psalm 102:3, Matthew 1:11, Matthew 26:26, Acts 13:18, 1 Corinthians 15:31, Ephesians 6:9, James 2:18, 1 Peter 2:21, 2 Peter 2:2, 11, 18, and 2 John 8.

A 1672 edition of the KJV has a textual marginal note at Matthew 27:9 [“Seeing this prophesy is read in Zech. 11:12, it cannot be denied but Jeremy‘s name crept into the text either through the printers fault, or by some others ignorance: it may be also that it came out of the margin, by reason of the abbreviation of the letters“]. One of the additional textual marginal notes likely added in the 1762 standard Cambridge KJV edition or the 1769 standard Oxford edition is the one at Revelation 22:19 as found in the 2005 New Cambridge Paragraph Bible: “Or, from the tree of life” (p. 1868). Oxford KJV editions printed in 1810, 1835, and 1857 have this same marginal note. Another example is found at Hebrews 10:17 [“Some copies have, Then he said, And their”].

I have a copy of a 1869 KJV New Testament that has various readings from Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus, and Codex Alexandrinus as its marginal notes. For example, at Mark 1:2, this KJV has this note: "SV in Esaias the prophet" (p. 53).

 

IFB are not protestants and never were </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, so you're not only KJVO, your a landmarker too?

I bet you believe everything you read in the "Trail of Blood."?

By the way, unlike you, Ed and I both use the REAL KJV1611. Now, whether or not it is the AV, you cannot say because AV was placed on the Bible by the PRINTER to indicate that the printer was authorized by the king to print the KJV; not to show that the version itself was authorized. It is like buying Microsoft software with a stamp on it saying this is the "real thing" and not a bootlegged copy.

It was (in a way) a copyright indication; if you wish to look at it that way. The King only allowed certain printers to print the KJV, so they used the Authorized Version on the printing itself. Therefore, if you call yours the Authorized Version, it may or may NOT be.

And now, for the REAL AV1611:

Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deepe? That is to bring vp Christ againe from the dead.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, euen in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that is the word of faith which we preach,
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart, that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man beleeueth vnto righteousnesse, and with the mouth confession is made vnto saluation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoeuer beleeueth on him, shall not bee ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference betweene the Iew and the Greeke: for the same Lord ouer all, is rich vnto all, that call vpon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoeuer shall call vpon the Name of the Lord, shall be saued.

AND let's not forget some parts you may be missing in your version of the 1611:

1Ma 4:1 Then tooke Gorgias fiue thousand footmen, and a thousand of the best horsemen, and remooued out of the campe by night:
1Ma 4:2 To the end he might rush in vpon the camp of the Iewes, and smite them suddenly. And the men of the fortresse were his guides.
1Ma 4:3 Now when Iudas heard thereof, hee himselfe remooued, and the valiant men with him, that hee might smite the Kings armie which was at Emmaus,
1Ma 4:4 While as yet the forces were dispersed from the campe.
1Ma 4:5 In the meane season came Gorgias by night into the campe of Iudas: and when hee found no man there, hee sought them in the mountaines: for said hee, these fellowes flee from vs.
1Ma 4:6 But assoone as it was day, Iudas shewed himselfe in the plaine with three thousand men, who neuerthelesse had neither armour, nor swordes to their mindes.
1Ma 4:7 And they sawe the campe of the heathen, that it was strong, and well harnessed, and compassed round about with horsemen; and these were expert of warre.
1Ma 4:8 Then said Iudas to the men that were with him: feare ye not their multitude, neither be ye afraid of their assault
1Ma 4:9 Remember how our fathers were deliuered in the red Sea, when Pharao pursued them with an armie.
1Ma 4:10 Now therfore let vs crie vnto heauen, if peraduenture the Lord wil haue mercie vpon vs, and remember the couenant of our fathers, and destroy this hoste before our face this day.
1Ma 4:11 That so all the heathen may know that there is one, who deliuereth and saueth Israel.
1Ma 4:12 Then the strangers lift vp their eyes, & saw them coming ouer against them.
1Ma 4:13 Wherefore they went out of the campe to battell, but they that were with Iudas sounded their trumpets.
1Ma 4:14 So they ioyned battell, and the heathen being discomfited, fled into the plaine.
1Ma 4:15 Howbeit all the hindmost of them were slaine with the sword: for they pursued them vnto Gazera, and vnto the plaines of Idumea, and Azotus, and Iamnia, so that there were slaine of them, vpon a three thousand men.
1Ma 4:16 This done, Iudas returned againe with his hoste fro pursuing them,
1Ma 4:17 And said to the people, Bee not greedie of the spoiles, in as much as there is a battell before vs,
1Ma 4:18 And Gorgias and his hoste are here by vs in the mountaine, but stand ye now against your enemies, and ouercome them, & after this you may boldly take the spoiles.
1Ma 4:19 As Iudas was yet speaking these words, there appeared apart of them looking out of the mountaine.
1Ma 4:20 Who when they perceiued that the Iewes had put their hoste to flight, and were burning the tents: (for the smoke that was seene declared what was done)
1Ma 4:21 When therefore they perceiued these things, they were sore afraid, and seeing also the hoste of Iudas in the plaine ready to fight:
1Ma 4:22 They fled euery one into the land of strangers.
1Ma 4:23 Then Iudas returned to spoile the tents, where they got much golde, and siluer, and blew silke, and purple of the sea, and great riches.
1Ma 4:24 After this, they went home, and sung a song of thankesgiuing, & praised the Lord in heauen: because it is good, because his mercie endureth for euer.
1Ma 4:25 Thus Israel had a great deliuerance that day.
1Ma 4:26 Now all the strangers that had escaped, came and told Lysias what had happened.
1Ma 4:27 Who when hee heard thereof, was confounded, and discouraged, because neither such things as he would, were done vnto Israel, nor such things as the king commanded him were come to passe.
1Ma 4:28 The next yeere therefore following, Lysias gathered together threescore thousand choice men of foote, and fiue thousand horsemen, that he might subdue them.
1Ma 4:29 So they came into Idumea, and pitched their tents at Bethsura, and Iudas met with them ten thousand men.
1Ma 4:30 And when he saw that mighty armie, he prayed, and said, Blessed art thou, O sauiour of Israel, who diddest quaile the violence of the mighty man by the hand of thy seruant Dauid, and gauest, the host of strangers into the hands of Ionathan the sonne of Saul, and his armour bearer.
1Ma 4:31 Shut vp this armie in the hand of thy people Israel, and let them be confounded in their power and horsemen.
1Ma 4:32 Make them to be of no courage, and cause the boldnesse of their strength to fall away, & let them quake at their destruction

Looks like a little more than a slight difference between the KJV1611 and your 1769 version. Also note that the 1769 printed in the United States does not need the statement "Authorized Version" because here, it is in the public domain and can be published by anybody.

 

Would you like to read the footnotes in the REAL KJV1611? They are QUITE enlightening. As mentioned above, the Vulgate was used extensively along with the Bishop's and Great Bible. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why the Bishop's needed to be updated if it was a perfect Word for Word Bible. But, then again why did the 1611 have to be updated.

Also, for the others here that keep insisting that the 1769 is a 1611, obviously you have not read the 1611 cover to cover. I highly suggest that you order one (and by the way, read the original footnotes written by the translators themselves.)

 

William,

I am not trying to insult you, but you are by far the most painful to discuss with I have ever had. You still havent answered a single question, in PM or in post, and you make statements such as IFB arent protestant, and they had it right since before the reformation......you are making a mockery of Jesus.

It is because of statements like these, completely unfounded, baseless, and error filled is why so many people out there laugh when I share the gospel with them. They have heard so many people telling them what they have to believe, and REFUSING to give "a reason for the faith you have", such as you have made a habit of here that it makes it hard to even start a conversation. I often blow their mind by all the "no, not all christians believe that" answers.

I am not perfect, by a long shot. However, I hold these things to be true:

1. The bible is enough, and does not need me to add where God mistakenly left out. It is all I need to live a Godly live and find sound doctrine. Where it speaks I listen, where it is silent I leave alone.

2. I do not hold a belief or practice which I am not willing to support with scripture or renounce. I have renounced many beliefs and practices I learned as a kid once I learned to read for myself and starting listening to the Holy Spirit.

3. I grow tired of explaining true Christianity to those who have rejected the legalism you offer. They hear all this talk about grace, mercy, love, and freedom, yet in the end all you offer is spite, rules, unfounded claims, and legalism. No wonder they reject Christ....THIS IS NOT THE CHRIST OF SCRIPTURE!!!!

Now, dont let facts stop you from leading people away from Christ and into confusion.

 

HERE HERE!

 

IFB are not protestants and never were </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, so you're not only KJVO, your a landmarker too?

I bet you believe everything you read in the "Trail of Blood."?

By the way, unlike you, Ed and I both use the REAL KJV1611. Now, whether or not it is the AV, you cannot say because AV was placed on the Bible by the PRINTER to indicate that the printer was authorized by the king to print the KJV; not to show that the version itself was authorized. It is like buying Microsoft software with a stamp on it saying this is the "real thing" and not a bootlegged copy.

It was (in a way) a copyright indication; if you wish to look at it that way. The King only allowed certain printers to print the KJV, so they used the Authorized Version on the printing itself. Therefore, if you call yours the Authorized Version, it may or may NOT be.

And now, for the REAL AV1611:

Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deepe? That is to bring vp Christ againe from the dead.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, euen in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that is the word of faith which we preach,
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart, that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man beleeueth vnto righteousnesse, and with the mouth confession is made vnto saluation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoeuer beleeueth on him, shall not bee ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference betweene the Iew and the Greeke: for the same Lord ouer all, is rich vnto all, that call vpon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoeuer shall call vpon the Name of the Lord, shall be saued.

AND let's not forget some parts you may be missing in your version of the 1611:

1Ma 4:1 Then tooke Gorgias fiue thousand footmen, and a thousand of the best horsemen, and remooued out of the campe by night:
1Ma 4:2 To the end he might rush in vpon the camp of the Iewes, and smite them suddenly. And the men of the fortresse were his guides.
1Ma 4:3 Now when Iudas heard thereof, hee himselfe remooued, and the valiant men with him, that hee might smite the Kings armie which was at Emmaus,
1Ma 4:4 While as yet the forces were dispersed from the campe.
1Ma 4:5 In the meane season came Gorgias by night into the campe of Iudas: and when hee found no man there, hee sought them in the mountaines: for said hee, these fellowes flee from vs.
1Ma 4:6 But assoone as it was day, Iudas shewed himselfe in the plaine with three thousand men, who neuerthelesse had neither armour, nor swordes to their mindes.
1Ma 4:7 And they sawe the campe of the heathen, that it was strong, and well harnessed, and compassed round about with horsemen; and these were expert of warre.
1Ma 4:8 Then said Iudas to the men that were with him: feare ye not their multitude, neither be ye afraid of their assault
1Ma 4:9 Remember how our fathers were deliuered in the red Sea, when Pharao pursued them with an armie.
1Ma 4:10 Now therfore let vs crie vnto heauen, if peraduenture the Lord wil haue mercie vpon vs, and remember the couenant of our fathers, and destroy this hoste before our face this day.
1Ma 4:11 That so all the heathen may know that there is one, who deliuereth and saueth Israel.
1Ma 4:12 Then the strangers lift vp their eyes, & saw them coming ouer against them.
1Ma 4:13 Wherefore they went out of the campe to battell, but they that were with Iudas sounded their trumpets.
1Ma 4:14 So they ioyned battell, and the heathen being discomfited, fled into the plaine.
1Ma 4:15 Howbeit all the hindmost of them were slaine with the sword: for they pursued them vnto Gazera, and vnto the plaines of Idumea, and Azotus, and Iamnia, so that there were slaine of them, vpon a three thousand men.
1Ma 4:16 This done, Iudas returned againe with his hoste fro pursuing them,
1Ma 4:17 And said to the people, Bee not greedie of the spoiles, in as much as there is a battell before vs,
1Ma 4:18 And Gorgias and his hoste are here by vs in the mountaine, but stand ye now against your enemies, and ouercome them, & after this you may boldly take the spoiles.
1Ma 4:19 As Iudas was yet speaking these words, there appeared apart of them looking out of the mountaine.
1Ma 4:20 Who when they perceiued that the Iewes had put their hoste to flight, and were burning the tents: (for the smoke that was seene declared what was done)
1Ma 4:21 When therefore they perceiued these things, they were sore afraid, and seeing also the hoste of Iudas in the plaine ready to fight:
1Ma 4:22 They fled euery one into the land of strangers.
1Ma 4:23 Then Iudas returned to spoile the tents, where they got much golde, and siluer, and blew silke, and purple of the sea, and great riches.
1Ma 4:24 After this, they went home, and sung a song of thankesgiuing, & praised the Lord in heauen: because it is good, because his mercie endureth for euer.
1Ma 4:25 Thus Israel had a great deliuerance that day.
1Ma 4:26 Now all the strangers that had escaped, came and told Lysias what had happened.
1Ma 4:27 Who when hee heard thereof, was confounded, and discouraged, because neither such things as he would, were done vnto Israel, nor such things as the king commanded him were come to passe.
1Ma 4:28 The next yeere therefore following, Lysias gathered together threescore thousand choice men of foote, and fiue thousand horsemen, that he might subdue them.
1Ma 4:29 So they came into Idumea, and pitched their tents at Bethsura, and Iudas met with them ten thousand men.
1Ma 4:30 And when he saw that mighty armie, he prayed, and said, Blessed art thou, O sauiour of Israel, who diddest quaile the violence of the mighty man by the hand of thy seruant Dauid, and gauest, the host of strangers into the hands of Ionathan the sonne of Saul, and his armour bearer.
1Ma 4:31 Shut vp this armie in the hand of thy people Israel, and let them be confounded in their power and horsemen.
1Ma 4:32 Make them to be of no courage, and cause the boldnesse of their strength to fall away, & let them quake at their destruction

Looks like a little more than a slight difference between the KJV1611 and your 1769 version. Also note that the 1769 printed in the United States does not need the statement "Authorized Version" because here, it is in the public domain and can be published by anybody. </font>[/QUOTE]Man that gives me chill bumps! I love it!

 

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoeuer beleeueth on him, shall not bee ashamed. Woooooooooo, Praise the Lord, I'm Born again, Halleluja

 

I am not perfect, by a long shot. However, I hold these things to be true:

1. The bible is enough, and does not need me to add where God mistakenly left out. It is all I need to live a Godly live and find sound doctrine. Where it speaks I listen, where it is silent I leave alone.

2. I do not hold a belief or practice which I am not willing to support with scripture or renounce. I have renounced many beliefs and practices I learned as a kid once I learned to read for myself and starting listening to the Holy Spirit.

3. I grow tired of explaining true Christianity to those who have rejected the legalism you offer. They hear all this talk about grace, mercy, love, and freedom, yet in the end all you offer is spite, rules, unfounded claims, and legalism. No wonder they reject Christ....THIS IS NOT THE CHRIST OF SCRIPTURE!!!!

Now, dont let facts stop you from leading people away from Christ and into confusion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amen, the reason people laugh at you is because 1 corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE

JAMES,

BY THE GRACE OF GOD

KING OF GREAT BRITAIN, FRANCE, AND IRELAND, DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, &C.,/P

The Translators of the Bible wish Grace, Mercy and Peace, through JESUS CHRIST, our Lord.

____________

G REAT and manifold were the blessings, most dread Sovereign, which Almighty God, the Father of all mercies, bestowed upon us the people of England, when first he sent Your Majesty's Royal Person to rule and reign over us. For whereas it was the expectation of many, who wished not well unto our Sion, that upon the setting of that bright Occidental Star, Queen Elizabeth of most happy memory, some thick and palpable clouds of darkness would so have overshadowed this Land, that men should have been in doubt which way they were to walk; and that it should hardly be known, who was to direct the unsettled State; the appearance of your Majesty, as the Sun in his strength, instantly dispelled those supposed and surmised mists, and gave unto all that were well affected exceeding cause of comfort; especially when we beheld the Government established in Your Highness, and Your hopeful Seed, by an undoubted Title, and this also accompanied with peace and tranquillity at home and abroad.

But among all our joys, there was no one that more filled our hearts, than the blessed continuance of the preaching of God's sacred Word among us; which is that inestimable treasure, which excelleth all the riches of the earth; because the fruit thereof extendeth itself, not only to the time spent in this transitory world, but directeth and disposeth men unto that eternal happiness which is above in heaven.

Then not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state, wherein the famous Predecessor of Your Highness did leave it: nay, to go forward with the confidence and resolution of a Man in maintaining the truth of Christ, and propagating it far and near, is that which hath so bound and firmly knit the hearts of all Your Majesty's loyal and religious people unto You, that Your very name is precious among them: their eye doth behold You with comfort, and they bless You in their hearts, as that sanctified Person who, under God, is the immediate Author of their true happiness. And this their contentment doth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe, that the zeal of Your Majesty toward the house of God doth not slack or go backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting itself abroad in the farthest parts of Christendom, by writing in defence of the Truth, (which hath given such a blow unto that man of sin, as will not be healed,) and every day at home, by religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of God, by hearing the Word preached, by cherishing the Teachers thereof, by caring for the Church, as a most tender and loving nursing Father.

There are infinite arguments of this right christian and religious affection in Your Majesty; but none is more forcible to declare it to others than the vehement and perpetuated desire of accomplishing and publishing of this work, which now with all humility we present unto Your Majesty. For when Your Highness had once out of deep judgment apprehended how convenient it was, that out of the Original Sacred Tongues, together with comparing of the labours, both in our own, and other foreign Languages, of many worthy men who went before us, there should be one more exact Translation of the holy Scriptures into the English Tongue; Your Majesty did never desist to urge and to excite those to whom it was commended, that the work might be hastened, and that the business might be expedited in so decent a manner, as a matter of such importance might justly require.

And now at last, by the mercy of God, and the continuance of our labours, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby; we hold it our duty to offer it to Your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal Mover and Author of the work: humbly craving of Your most Sacred Majesty, that since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of illmeaning and discontented persons, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is, whose allowance and acceptance of our labours shall more honour and encourage us, than all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God's holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self-conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing, but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity, as before the Lord; and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty's grace and favour, which will ever give countenance to honest and christian endeavours against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

The Lord of heaven and earth bless Your Majesty with many and happy days, that, as his heavenly hand hath enriched Your Highness with many singular and extraordinary graces, so You may be the wonder of the world in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great GOD, and the good of his Church, through Jesus Christ our Lord and only Saviour.

 

"If we be ignorant, they will instruct us; if out of the way, they will bring us home; if out of order, they will reform us; if in heaviness, comfort us; if dull, quicken us; if cold, inflame us".
The words of a KJB tranlator AV 1611 1 But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknown tongue? as it is written, Except I know the power of the voice, I shall be to him that speaketh, a Barbarian, and he that speaketh, shall be a Barbarian to me. [1Cor.14]

 

No, they laugh because they are used to people like you adding to the bible.

They really dont know what to do with someone like me who believes that God's word is enough.

They laugh at your riddles, though. I have decided that you are thus far the most dishonest person I have discussed with on this board.

SNIP

[ April 25, 2006, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, I take offense at your malignantly pejorative post against a brother.

 

Closed due to personal attacks.