The KJV1873 Edition

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Ed Edwards, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    This topic is for the discussion of
    The KJV1873 Edition
    specifically the
    "Preface to the 1873 Edition"

    I looked at Google for:
    "Preface to the 1873 Edition" "King James Version"
    All I found is:
    Today's Parallel Bible is for sell at this place:

    http://www.thattechnicalbookstore.com/b0310918367.htm

    There is a sample from Genesis of the KJV1873 by
    the Publisher: Zondervan in Adobe format at:

    http://www.zondervan.com/media/samples/pdf/0310941393_samptxt.pdf

    Since I can't find an electronic copy of the page:
    "Preface to the 1873 Edition", I may quote it all in portions,
    I want to discuss the "Preface to the 1873 Edition".
    Evidently it is an amended edition by Dr Scrivner distributed by
    Zondervan.

    The preface is also mentioned at BB at:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=546203

    by Ed Edwards, of course:
    -Ed, Multiple KJVs user
     
  2. Keith M

    Keith M
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,024
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know about an English degree, but having "cut my teeth" on one of the KJVs, it doesn't seem so hard. But back in my whippersnapper years I was really surprised the first time I saw the differences in the 1611 KJV and later editions - especially in the spellings of words. It took me a while to learn to read the "u" as a "v." But then I discoveree for myself that all the early translations used the "u" instead of the "v" - the "v" came later and was used in later KJVs.
     
  3. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm sure you recognized the error in this statement.
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ed Edwards about his pastor and the KJVs:
    //He mentioned you need a English degree to read it. //

    Rufus_1769: //I'm sure you recognized the error in this statement.//

    I recognize the truth of my Pastor's statement.

    From my English Major (pre-Seminary, from OBU)
    Pastor, I learned about the 'polysyndeton'.
    Knowing about the polysyndeton, the Holy Spirit
    helped me understand that the key to
    Jesus'es prophecy in Matthew 24-25 is Matthew 24-3.
    The outline of the prophecy then is in
    the polysyndetons ('kai' in Greek).

    ---------------------------------
    In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
    ask three questions:

    (in the order asked):
    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    3. What is the sign of the end of age?

    Jesus answers these questions in
    Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
    some parables in Matthew 24:45 through Matthew 25..

    Here are the answers of Jesus in the
    order the questions were asked:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-14

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:15-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    Here is a summary of the answers
    in the order in which events will occur
    (not in the order in which the questions were asked):

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Soon, it was in 70AD

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    No signs preceeding the end of the age

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    The Sign of His coming will be the
    Tribulation period.


    Recall the Greek language in which this
    Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
    did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
    So many ands, buts, and other connectors
    give the outline. 'Polysyndeton' is a retorical device that uses
    (in English) repeated connectors (usually 'and')
    instead of an outline. This is most noticable
    in the Bible in Genesis 1 and Matthew 24.

    I believe the major outline to be:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-14

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:15-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
    Rapture/resurrection which ends the
    current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
    last days, etc.)

    Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
    church age even up to this time.
    Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
    The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
    that the church age continues.
     
    #4 Ed Edwards, Feb 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2007
  5. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    How does all that demonstrate that you need an English degree to understand the Bible?
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your response belays your mis-understanding of the conversation
     
  7. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    It "belays" it? I don't have a degree in English. Could you point me to a dictionary and the definition you are using so I might understand what you are saying?

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inego Montoya​
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ed Edwards to Rufus_1769:
    //Your response belays your mis-understanding of the conversation//


    Rufus_1769: //It "belays" it? I don't have a degree in English. Could you point me to a dictionary and the definition you are using so I might understand what you are saying?//

    I'm a retired Engineer - the opposite of an English Major.
    However: I can point & click (I even have Webster's 1828 Dicitonary on a
    top bar of my Browswer (Mozilla Firefox).

    This page:

    http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=belay

    has this definition:
    Let us do some simple subsitution and figure it out:

    1. Your response obstructs your mis-understanding of the conversation.
    Makes no sense

    2. Your response ambushes your mis-understanding of the conversation.
    Makes no sense

    3. Your response covers your mis-understanding of the conversation.
    Makes a tad of sense, but no prize

    4. Your response ties down your mis-understanding of the conversation.
    That is what this antique word: 'belay' means for this conversation.

    I need to run do some errands. I'll visit some more about this
    matter. And someday I'll get into the subject:
    the Preface to the 1873 Edition.
     
  9. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    0
    I will continue to maintain that you do not need a degree in English to understand the Bible and I do not believe you have made a case that we do. However, you have made a case for why one might need a degree in seamanship to understand you. Please carry-on with your preface discussion.
     
  10. Keith M

    Keith M
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,024
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just jump right in there, Ed. We can see where the heckling is going. Let's see where your OP is going.

    :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have to type stuff myself. I'll be back.
     
  12. BruceB

    BruceB
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Title and first paragraph:


     
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
  15. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    King James Version
    PREFACE TO THE 1873 EDITION:

     
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Comments on MARGINAL NOTES
    (I've called these translator notes elsewhere) are from:

    http://www.hendrickson.com/pdf/intros/1565635612-intro.pdf

    titled:
    PREFACE TO THE 1873 EDITION
    The 35 New Testament alternate readings are being
    discussed in this Topic:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=37811

    called:
    Notes in the 1611 KJV
     
  17. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,971
    Likes Received:
    128
    This preface is a recent construction, written for Zondervan by John R. Kohlenbergerger III.

    The original preface started out so:


    THE​
    CAMBRIDGE PARAGRAPH BIBLE
    OF THE​
    AUTHORIZED ENGLISH VERSION,​
    WITH THE TEXT REVISED BY A COLLATION OF ITS EARLY AND OTHER PRINCIPAL EDITIONS,​
    THE USE OF THE ITALIC TYPE MADE UNIFORM,​
    THE MARGINAL REFERENCES REMODELLED,​
    AND A CRITICAL INTRODUCTION PREFIXED​
    BY​
    THE REV. F. H. SCRIVENER, M.A., LL.D.​
    RECTOR OF ST. GERRANS, EDITOR OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT, CODEX AUGIENSIS, &c.​
    ONE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT COMPANY OF REVISERS OF THE AUTHORIZED VERSION.​
    Edited for the Syndics of the University Press.​
    Cambridge:​
    AT THE UNIVERSITY PRESS.
    ——————​
    LONDON: CAMBRIDGE WAREHOUSE, 17, PATERNOSTER ROW.​
    CAMBRIDGE: DEIGHTON, BELL AND CO.​
    1873.​
    CONTENTS.​
    ———♦———​
    Introduction
    Sect. I. —On the History of the Text of the Authorized Version of the English Bible, from a. d. 1611 down to the present time.
    Sect. II. —On the Marginal Notes and the Original Texts of the Authorized Version of the English Bible.
    Sect. III. —On the Use of the Italic Type by the Translators, and on the extension of their principles by subsequent Editors.
    Sect. IV. —On the System of Punctuation adopted in 1611, and modified in more recent Bibles.
    Sect. V. —On the Orthography, Grammatical Peculiarities, and Capital Letters of the Original, as compared with Modern Editions.
    Sect. VI. —On the References to parallel texts of Scripture which are set in the Margin.
    Sect. VII. —Miscellaneous Observations relating to the present Edition, and general Conclusion.
    Appendix A.—List of passages in which this Edition departs from the Text of 1611.
    Appendix B.—The two Issues of the Bible of 1611 compared.
    Appendix C.—List of passages in which the Readings of the Edition of the Authorized Bible of 1611 have been restored in the present volume.
    Appendix D.—Blayney’s Report to the Rev. the Vice-Chancellor, and the other Delegates of the Clarendon Press.
    Appendix E.—The Greek Text adopted by the Translators of the Authorized Version of the New Testament.
    The Translators’ Preface to the Reader
    The Epistle Dedicatory (1)


    [FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]The Cambridge Paragraph Bible: Of the Authorized English Version. 2006. Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
     
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, I shall carry on.

    This is a NOT a debate, it is an information sharing topic.
    I shared information about how something my Pastor
    (a college English Major) shared about the English language:
    namely about Figures of speech. Figures of Speech are used
    throughout the Bible to communicate so those who understand
    about Figures of speech can be used by the Holy Spirit toward
    deeper relationships with Jesus, the Messiah.

    If we were going to debate, I'd be talking about the
    Baptist Cult of Ignorance that teaches the heresy
    that The Holy Spirit can't use the educated.
    Some elements of that heresy disdain anything past 5th grade
    (Saints don't need to know about improper fractions,
    only proper fractions ;) )

    Rufus_1611: // ... I do not believe you have made a case that we do. //

    I didn't try to make a case, only give an example of how it
    might be helpful. And thank you for helping my case show up
    twice :godisgood:
     

Share This Page

Loading...