"The Law is for the transgressor"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Grahame, oppsed by Heavenly Pilgrim, said:
    "we must banish from our minds that the law has anything to do with us in the way of condemnation. "

    GE:
    I fully accept --- if in Christ be hid our entire being and life.
     
  2. BobRyan

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    1Cor 6
    7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?
    8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.


    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
    Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers
    ,will inherit the kingdom of God.

    11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
     
  3. BobRyan

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    James 2
    8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "" YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,'' you are doing well.


    9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
    10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
    11 For He who said, ""
    DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,''also said, ""DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
    12 So
    speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.[/b]
     
  4. BobRyan

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    It's funny how the Bible always sets everything straight!
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    What would you say, is the law of liberty?
     
  6. EdSutton

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    And what would you, BobRyan, say is "the law of the spirit of life In Christ Jesus"?

    And what would you say is "the law of sin and death"?

    Especially since this first one has made us free from the second one, and in the Scripture you cited, is it not "the 'royal law'" that is doing the convicting of us as transgressors, and not, unlike what is being postulated on these pages so frequently, the Ten Commandments?

    I agree that it is amazing how the Bible will and does set straight, if we let it speak, and not try and box it in and re-interpret such things as "fullfill" to read "keep", or "repent" to read "repent of sin", for a couple of examples.
    A three-fold promise for one who believes, including 'no condemnation'. Note the tenses Jesus used!

    Preach on here, Brother GE and Brother grahame!

    Ed
     
    #6 EdSutton, Jan 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2007
  7. grahame

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    Within context, yes it does.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    The law that includes the examples that James gives... letting the Bible interpret the Bible seems to work well here. In this case James quotes from Lev 19:18 and from Exodus 20.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

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    Please show that quote from James 2 so that we can be sure to use honest exegesis as we interpret what James has said.

    Or is your solution to James 2 - to talk about something else instead?

    (Hint: Go to the "James to or bible butchery" thread and show that you have a solution consistent with the text)



    Indeed it is... and that Law is being quoted from in James 2 as "examples" of what the term means according to James.

    If the claim is that James is not QUOTING from Exodus 20 and calling THAT "the Law of Liberty" then show it IN THE TEXT.


    Wonderful... now back to that inconvenient text again.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. EdSutton

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    Since my response does not claim that these verses come from James, although one example does, what it your question? I merely asked for how you would interpret and/or how would you define these phrases. The phrase "the royal law" does come from James; the phrases "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus", and its contrast to "the law of sin and death" come from Rom. 8:2. And the OP in this thread does not cite any verse of Scripture, specifically, as far as I can tell. So why do you demand I comment on a specific text, merely because you picked it? And for that matter, is there a specific verse that says, "the Law is for the transgressor" in the first place? I do know there is a passage that says:
    If the law is not made for a righteous person, why do so many attempt to gauge righteousness by it? Or does this merely serve as a convenient way to judge someone, while loudly procaliming that one is doing no such thing???

    Ed
     
    #10 EdSutton, Jan 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2007
  11. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    A law is simply a rule of action. As sinners we find ourselves in accordance to the rule of action that demands separation from God and misery.

    As believers, we are set free from the rule of action in our lives that was ruling due to willing disobedience to the know commandments of God, first by the forgiveness of sins “that are past.” We live now, if we are walking according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh, according to the rule of action that is found in willing obedience and compliance to God’s law. The old rule of action that condemned us is no longer in effect, for we walk not after that law, i.e. we are no more in willing compliance to do those things disobedient to God, but have willing accepted forgiveness for past sins and now in obedience are walking in the light of the Holy Spirit. We are at liberty from the law, yet we obey the spirit of the law. Why? Because we are now in compliance to it. It no longer condemns us but rather serves as an indication of our ultimate goals in life, i.e. evidence that indeed we do love and serve God.
    “Show me thy faith without thy works, but I will show you my faith by my works for faith without works is dead being alone.”

    As we walk in the perfect law of liberty, we have peace with God and man. The law of liberty is to walk under the rule of willing obedience. Not in the mere fulfillment of the letter, as some ‘required hardship’ to endure, but as willing love slaves, obeying from the heart in love towards God for the grace He has proffered us.
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    The Law is for the transgressor - meant for him. To catch and condemn him. To prove one a sinner. The Law in this sense, is not the Law of liberty. James must be speaking of another Law that (as Paul has said) is able to give life. Only Christ can give life - He only is the source of life. So Jesus Christ must be the Law of Liberty. He forgives sins and he sets one free of sins - redeams from sin. He has become one's Rule of life, ones Standard and Authority in conduct and doctrine. He is never in conflict with the Law of condemnation, the Ten Commandments, otherwise He too would have been under its condemnation. That He had become, once for all, when He bore our punishment. He was counted a transgressor so that we could go free -- Jesus is our Law of Liberty.

    I don't think we could say that of one's will even though changed in the regenerate.
     
  13. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: That is what GE says, but what did Christ Himself say?

    Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
     
  14. BobRyan

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    Bob quotes James 2 --



    Ed Sutton responds with

    Bot then directs Ed to some actual attention to the texts quoted above ...

    Ed shows that he is trying to get away from it ...

    The point remains - James 2 SHOWS Law as it is applied to the believer and even gives EXAMPLES of that Law. Therefore the Law of Life - has to include the commands that James declares to APPLY to the Christian.

    Obviously.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. BobRyan

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    This is where I quote James 2 "again" showing that SCRIPTURE declares the saints to be judged by the Law of Liberty and under the Royal Law -- in which the examples GIVEN are snippet quotes of Lev 19:18, and quotes form Exodus 20.

    Paul also does this in Romans 13.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    GE:

    That was a challenge, even a logical deduction; but not the recipy whereby to obtain eternal life. Jesus wanted to show how impossible it would be to earn salvation, and how free, grace comes.
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus", and its contrast ... "the law of sin and death" --

    Both define and explain themselves.

    The first 'Law', is "the law of", "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" : it is the only way or law and the only possible way or law to life: namely, "in Christ", and through "the Spirit".

    No Law engraven in stone is able to give life or to lead to life - fulstop!

    The second 'Law', is, "The law of sin and death" -- Sin, and die! because death is sin's reward.

    Transgress the Ten Commandments in any way and you transgress against Jesus Christ -- although one might transgress against Christ in many ways not defined or explained in the Ten Commandments, like, Don't believe in Christ, and so do sin, and so die!
     
  18. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Where do you find that information?
     
  19. Amy.G

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    Basic reading skills.
     
  20. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Nice try Amy:thumbs:
     

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