The Law of God in the NT - What is it?

The Law of God is the Law. It is all still in effect.

 

When he quotes from the law to establish a minister's right for compensation, he quotes from a statute regarding oxen saying it wasn't for oxen that God commanded it, but for those who labor in the Gospel.

 

Paul quoted the Fifth Commandment to converted Gentiles in Ephesus, and affirmed the promise.

 

HP: Simply untrue.

HP: Yes, it does indeed shine a light where there is sin, but you cannot conclude all have sin to have that light shown on, present tense. Romans 7 is all about Paul before he was saved as convicted sinner and NOT about the walk of a believer or his own walk subsequent to his salvation experience.

HP: Completely untrue. If that was true God would be entirely unjust to place a standard, infractions thereof punishable by eternal damnation, that no one could in reality reach. That paints a horrible blight of the Justice of God’s character, and is no where supported in Scripture.

HP: They teach no such thing as you assume. Certainly once we have sinned righteousness does not come through the keeping of the law, but once the righteousness of Christ has covered sins that are past, indeed our subsequent obedience to the law is justly considered as righteousness, without which we shall not see God.

HP: Many Churches teach one can keep God’s law in accordance to Scripture. I would say ONLY those clearly Calvinistic or ‘leaning hard towards Calvinism’ would take the position you are assuming.

 

Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It appears that some try and separate fulfilling the ‘righteousness of the law’ from keeping the law itself, as if though one might fulfill the righteousness of the law while forming intents in opposition to the law. No one can fulfill the righteousness of Gods moral law while forming intents in opposition to the moral law itself, the moral law having its most basic codification expressed in the ten commandments.

Christ held firmly to compliance to the ten commandments and even strengthened them for believers, showing that merely keeping them on the outside to the letter of the law was not all that is required of us as believers, but rather that we must also keep the spirit of the law as well in a spirit of love towards God and not simply some duty to grudgingly perform.

 

>Paul quoted the Fifth Commandment to converted Gentiles in Ephesus, and affirmed the promise.

Then a Christian can add years to his lifespan by emigrating to Israel?

 

And yet the bible says that if men could be made righteous by the law, then Christ died needlessly.

Of course, believers, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, will have their desires changed over time and should want to please God, which means they will allow the convictions by the Holy Spirit to steer them into a life that is in conformity to the life of Christ, but no one can ever achieve a perfect obedience of the law.

I think we should think about what is the purpose of these commandments. It's not to make a checklist and then be proud of mastering anything; the commandments reflect the character of God, and the Holy Spirit is conforming us into the image of Christ, so therefore, as one allows the HS to do His work and yields to the HS, he/she conforms more and more to the image of Christ. Then one wants to keep the commandments and is more able to resist sin.

If one is only woodenly or legalistically trying to obey the commandments, which is what I think is the result of the SDA and other legalistic entities, then there is no point to it.

And the most important thing is that however well one keeps the laws/commandments, one has been justified by faith at salvation - that is, declared righteous by God - and has eternal life. I do not think the SDA teaches this.

 

But that does not mean the Gentile is following the law! It only means that the Gentile's conscience shows that all have a sense of right and wrong. This is one evidence of a Creator.

He is saying that those who try to be righteous by the law will fail - this is said in a few places in the NT - I posted at least one of these statements.

 

I have actually argued for the above view, that Rom. 7 is about the unregenerate state. However, the other view also has good points. But we can go to other scripture to show that believers sin.

You disagree that the commandments reflect the character of God?? Of course they do. They were given by God. And they were given, as it says in Galatians, as "tutor" to lead us to Christ. How? Because when man realizes he cannot obey these commandments, that he cannot be as good as God, he realizes he needs Jesus because there is nothing man can do to earn salvation by works. Also, the law shows the person his sin; many have come to Christ by realizing that they cannot be as good as God. This is not how I came to Christ, but many have.

I bolded and underlined your incredible statement above. If you believe this, then you are rejecting the plain teaching of scripture, HP. Those verses are as clear as crystal. If you think that one must obey the law to be saved, then it means that you think the atonement of Christ was insufficient to pay for the penalty of sins.

Many of the verses used to say what you are saying are actually teaching about rewards or loss of rewards for believers, not loss of salvation. But I know you believe one can lose his salvation, and I'm done arguing that with you. It gets nowhere.

I know of the holiness churches that teach one can keep the law (Methodist, Nazarene, Pentecostal) and I strongly disagree that this view is scripturally supported. I am not a Calvinist at all, never have been. It's a sore point with many Calvinists who know me.

 

HP: No it does not. It simply means I believe the notion of the literal payment theory you espouse (a notion clearly supported by Calvinistic dogma) is unscriptural, illogical, and as such a false notion unsupported by Scripture or reason.

 

Marcia, while you are mentioning things that are ' incredible' to you,
let me make yet another statement for you to consider.

If one claims to be born again and obedience (righteousness) is not a subsequent result, such a one is deceived as to their standing before God.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

Not merely quoted, but appealed to as authority.

 

I am not a Calvinist! Good grief.

What do you mean by the "literal payment theory?"

 

Did you read my post where I addressed obedience? It was rather long for me. I see no reason to repeat it.

 

How about just examining your ownself? I already said that I have failed and many times. Have you failed to keep a commandment since your rebirth?

:jesus: