Featured The Leaven of Synergism

No, for if that was true then all sinners would have the capability, the means within themselves to respond to the gospel, to belive in jesus with their own inherit faith, but there is no coming to Jesus and getting saved unless God wills that to happen!

 

All men DO have the ability to believe the gospel ONCE they have heard it. No man can believe what he does not know and has never heard. This is exactly what Paul shows in Romans 10;

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

For probably the twentieth time, no other verse in all of scripture deals with the subject of ABILITY as does Romans 10:14.

First, Paul asks how any man shall call on Jesus unless he believes on him. If you do not truly believe Jesus is the Son of God who died for your sins and rose from the dead, then you are not going to call on him. Nobody is going to call on an ordinary man who died nearly 2000 years ago. No, you have to believe that Jesus is alive NOW and ABLE to save you, or you will not call on him.

Second, Paul asks HOW any man can BELIEVE on Jesus unless he has heard of him. Does Paul say a person must be regenerated to believe? NO, he simply says we need to hear of Jesus to believe. You cannot believe in Jesus if you have never heard of him.

Third, Paul asks HOW a man can HEAR unless a preacher be sent. Does Paul say a man must be regenerated to have the ability or desire to hear? NOPE, Paul simply says a preacher must be sent. This implies that men have the natural innate ability to both hear and believe the gospel if only someone will come and preach it to them.

You can insist all day long that a person has to be regenerated to have the desire to hear and the ability to believe, but you cannot show a single scripture in the entire Bible to support this. Zilch, nada, zero!

Yes, a man must be drawn to come to Jesus, but it is the gospel that draws all men to Jesus when they hear how he loved them and died to take away their sins.

No, Paul said faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. It is God's part to supply his word, man's part is to hear. That is synergism.

 

paul states to us the God ordained that the preaching of the Cross of Christ would be the agent God would use to have His elect receive jesus thru faith, for the Spriti will make sure that they get it, and that they will be able to receive Him by it!

 

What you are saying is that God ordained synergism. God could come down and speak to every person personally like he did with Paul on the road to Damascus couldn't he?

So, it is obvious God wants men to be involved in his work. That is synergism.

I would be embarrassed to be a Calvinist. You guys are trying to convince the world that men are not involved in salvation when EVERYBODY can see they are. :laugh:

Embarrassing.

 

You just described synergism. Congratulations!

 

Except God didn"t "appear" to him, he heard the preaching of the gospel from a man just like everyone else. That is synergism.

And then, as you said, HE had to believe. That is synergism too.

These guys won't come clean. They will deny the obvious no matter how foolish they look to hold to false doctrine.

You cannot reason with unreasonable people.

 

synergism is a big word.....looks like you and WD do not quite understand it's meaning yet.....

 

Then explain it in your own words. Then we'll see how much YOU know.

 

We don't need to...you and Mr. Mtn. already did :thumbs:

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Amen Brother, Why indeed.

Was Paul saved before he believed that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ the Son of God? ------Indeed.

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, Gal 1:15 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 16

Was Paul born for that purpose?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5 Well maybe that's another thread.

 

There are several "theological" definitions of synergism. My favorite is the following:

The theological doctrine that salvation results from the interaction of the human will and divine grace.

If one accepts that Christ can be rejected, then I do not see how it is possible to be without some degree of synergism. So once again, I lay claim to the title of synergist. Proudly, but without arrogance.

 

We know that the Bible teaches that ALl are spiritual found dead at birth by God, as dead in Adam, and ONLY those whom the death of Christ atoned FOR WILL BE SAVED BY IT, AND THAT SINNERS IN AND BY THEMSELVES UNABLE TO RECEIVE JESUS TO GET SAVED, THAT PART IS TOTALLY DONE BY THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!

the faith that a sinner uses to access the Grace that saves them is a gift from God, so there is nothing that we do to get saved by God!

 

The Bible does not teach that we are born spiritually dead, you cannot show one single verse in scripture to support this. I challenge you here and now to show scripture that says this, you can't do it.

But is there scripture that shows we are not born dead in sin? YES. Quite a few.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Scripture says God has made man upright. That means without sin. The word "they" points back to the word "man" showing this verse is speaking of all men, not just Adam.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

In Romans 7, Paul is describing when he came to know the law and understand sin. In verse 7 he says he had not known sin, except by the law, for he would have not known what lust is, except the law had said, "thou shalt not covet".

So it is clear Paul is speaking of that time as a young man when he was taught and came to know the law. And in verse 9 Paul tells us he was "alive once without the law". He was spiritually alive until he learned the law and learned what sin is. When he learned the law he was convicted of his sin and spiritually died. He said the commandment ordained to life he found to be unto death, and that sin taking opportunity or occasion by the law slew him.

You have to be alive to die. A dead person cannot die. If we are born dead in sin, then Paul could never say he was "alive once". But that is exactly what he said.

But there is more, when Jesus described lost persons in Luke 15, none were originally lost. The lost sheep was not lost at first, but became lost until the shepherd recovered it. The woman had 10 pieces of silver at first, none were lost. Then she lost one coin and searched until she recovered it.

The prodigal son was not lost at first, scripture said the father had two sons.

Luk 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

The prodigal son was not lost at first, he was at home with his father. He knowingly and willingly went out in sin. He joined himself to a citizen of that country. I believe this is speaking of the devil. This is when the boy became lost, dead in sin, a child of the devil, and a child of wrath.

Luk 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

Fortunately, the boy came to himself. There is not one word that he had to be supernaturally regenerated to come to himself and decide to go back to his father and ask for forgiveness.

Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

Not one word about the necessity to be regenerated to repent here, the boy decided on his own to return to his father and ask for forgiveness.

But we see something very interesting, when he was "a great way off" his father "saw him". This is foreknowledge, this is God seeing those who will come in faith to Jesus before they actually come to him. It is right there, plain as day to those who will receive it.

But back to the issue, is a man born dead? NO. Twice Jesus said the prodigal was alive AGAIN. If we are born dead in sin, then it could never be said we are alive again, but that is exactly what Jesus said TWICE.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Yes, Jesus said the boy was alive AGAIN, which shows he was originally alive. For those that would argue the prodigal was a believer at first, this parable cannot be speaking of a born again person, because Jesus also said the boy was "dead" and "lost", terms never applied to born-again believers.

No, all three parables in Luke 15 show a man is not born dead in sin, but that a man dies when he willingly and knowingly sins. When a man knows right from wrong he becomes accountable and therefore spiritually dies as Paul said in Romans 7 when he sins.

But when we come to Jesus we are born AGAIN, and made alive AGAIN.

Now there, I have shown you much evidence we are not born dead in sin, now you show me even a single verse that says we are born dead in sin. You can't do it.

 

We are born in a state/condition apart from God, as jesus said that those who are not saved and made anew by Him are still children of the Devil, paul stated that ALL are into satans LKingdom until/unless God places them into the One of Jesus...

Jesus had to be Virgin Born to bypass being born with a sin nature like all the rest of us...

really need to study your bible, and take the "free will" blinders off!

 

No, you misunderstand me...or I fail to communicate effectively. I "proudly" wear the label of "synergist". (but without arrogance) I have not rejected Christ, nor am I "proud" when anyone does. My "heart" is deeply saddened when someone rejects Christ and the message of the gospel. I am "proud" (meaning I am unashamed) to wear the label of "synergist" . Many here love to attach pejorative connotations to anyone who differs from their own position.

 

We are not born separated from God.

1 Pet 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

You are the one who needs to take the blinders off, Peter said we are now RETURNED to the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls.

You cannot return someplace you have never been. If we are all born separated from God, then Peter could not say we are returned to Jesus, but that is exactly what he said.

No, you can only return someplace you were BEFORE. Words have meaning.

In Luke 15, none were originally lost. The sheep was not originally lost.

Luk 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

The silver piece was not originally lost.

Luk 15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

The prodigal was not originally lost.

Luk 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

Paul didn't say he was "dead" without the law once, he said he was "alive". If men are born dead in sin, separated from God, this would be impossible for any man to say, but that is exactly what Paul told us.

You have not provided one word to prove men are born dead in sin. You cannot do it, because no such scripture exists. Yet there is an abundance of scripture that shows men are NOT born dead in sin.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

Were Jacob and Esau sinners in their mother's womb? NOPE, Paul said they had not done any evil. If men are guilty of Adam's sin, this could not be said.

Plus, God himself says the son shall not bear the sins or iniquity of his father.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

I have already showed nearly a dozen verses of scripture that absolutely refutes your view that men are born dead in sin, yet you have not shown even one single verse to support your view.

You are all talk and NO substance.

 

peter is quoting Isaiah, and the point that the Spirit was amking is that just as in OT , isreal forsoke God, and turned away from Him, so we also in the NT are those who ALL turned aside, gone our own ways!

Do you seny that we are born sinners, that we are lost before jesus saves us, estranged until then from God?