The Living Paraphrase

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. Phillip

    Phillip
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    It is my understanding that the paraphrase that was popular in the 1970s had a lot of places that were problems. I am referring to The Living Bible.

    Now, I realize that a paraphrase should always be considered, just that, a paraphrase and therefore is not considered a translation, but many people used it.

    Comments on its accuracy would be appreciated and also the accuracy of the New Living Translation.
     
  2. Craigbythesea

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    In my opinion, the Living Bible, Paraphrased is a very poor paraphrase that distorts the message of the Bible. The New Living Translation is a fraud. It pretends to be a translation but it is really a revision of the Living Bible, Paraphrased. This can be readily proven to be the case by the hundreds of cases where the exact language of the Living Bible, Paraphrased has been retained in the New Living Translation.

    Here is just one of hundreds of examples where the distortions of the Biblical message found in the Living Bible, Paraphrased are retained in the New Living Translation:

    Are we really saved by grace through faith, or are we saved through obedience to our Father in heaven:

    21. "Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as 'Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven.
    22. On judgment day many will tell me, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.'
    23. But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized. '
    Matthew 7:21-23 (NLT)

    21. ``Not all who sound religious are really godly people. They may refer to me as `Lord,' but still won't get to heaven. For the decisive question is whether they obey my Father in heaven.
    22. At the Judgment many will tell me, `Lord, Lord, we told others about you and used your name to cast out demons and to do many other great miracles.'
    23. But I will reply, `You have never been mine. Go away, for your deeds are evil.'
    (LB)

    21. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
    22. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
    23. "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (NASB, 1995)
     
  3. Phillip

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    Point taken.....Thank You! [​IMG]
     
  4. robycop3

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    In 1 Samuel 20;30, one of the most offensive phrases in American English is found in the early edition of the LB! For C4K & other non-American English users, this is the scatology abbreviated SOB. In more than one part of the USA, calling someone this name is legal grounds for fighting.

    To me, no valid BV would have that kind of language! A Jewish friend told me the Hebrew, translated as "perverse, rebellious" in the KJV is 'avah'( working iniquity)'marduwth'(rebellious) which most likely was over the fact that Saul believed Jonathan had chosen David on his own to be king after Saul, instead of himself. Saul did NOT know nor care that GOD had chosen David, & had had Samuel anoint him as He'd had him anoint Saul years before.

    At any rate, my Jewish friend told me that Hebrew couldn't POSSIBLY refer to the scatology named above.

    Some KJVOs accuse us of accepting anything calling itself a Bible as a valid version. Well, this certainly isn't true of me, and I doubt if it's true of any other anti-KJVOismist here.
     
  5. Ben W

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    I well understand the idea that the phrase if offensive, yet if you look carefully at the text without blinkers on, you will see that Saul was using a swear word. He was bitterly angry and he did swear at the medium.
     
  6. rsr

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    Roby said:

    Which is exactly what Taylor was trying to get across when using that phrase to describe what Saul said to Jonathan. "Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman" sounds too much formalized to really be offensive to modern ears.

    Taylor's transgression was against taste, not the text. The NET notes actually support his reading. (The NET, of course, doesn't render it that way and uses less coarse language.)

    That's not to say Taylor should have rendered it that way, but rather points out the need for Bibles with good notes.
     
  7. Phillip

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    I well understand the idea that the phrase if offensive, yet if you look carefully at the text without blinkers on, you will see that Saul was using a swear word. He was bitterly angry and he did swear at the medium. </font>[/QUOTE]This may be true, Ben, but as robycop said, the Hebrew does not appear to support it. Obviously many other translations have translated it using other words without error.

    Here are the words used in my interlinear: "rebellious of son perverse to him he and Jonathan against Saul anger the And of glowed" Now, obviously Hebrew does not do very well translated word for word into English.

    The word woman does not even appear and the side translation is "A Literal Translation of the Bible" by Jay P. Green, Sr. which says: "son of rebelliousness". If I understand the interlinear words correctly, this would be a much more accurate translation.

    Obviously, nothing here should support such a translation.

    I would gladly hear from a Hebrew scholar as to a real translation.
     
  8. rsr

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    I have removed the link to the NET Bible note for fear it may be offensive.
     
  9. Phillip

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    Dr. Bob, or any other person who can read Biblical Hebrew, is rebellious woman the correct Hebrew meaning, or is this "implied" because it is "son of rebelliousness"? What does the true Hebrew refer to?
     
  10. Ransom

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    Phillip said:

    The word woman does not even appear and the side translation is "A Literal Translation of the Bible" by Jay P. Green, Sr. which says: "son of rebelliousness".

    In the present vernacular, "son of rebelliousness" is a meaningless phrase. What would the equivalent idiom be?

    SOB is sounding better. It may be crass. But so was Saul calling his son one.
     
  11. rsr

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    This reminds me of some previous discussions about language and what's acceptable.

    Roby finds the LB phrase offensive, yet feels free to refer to it as an acronym; we can all fill in the words, so is not the acronym as offensive as what it stands for?

    Check out the NET Bible notes for the verse for an analysis of what Saul was really saying.
     
  12. Craigbythesea

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    The literal translation would be, "son of perverse rebelliousness.” The Hebrew word translated “son of perverse” is a feminine participle, thus we get “Son of a perverse woman of rebellion.”

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Craigbythesea

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    Here is another tidbit from the Living Bible, Paraphrased:

    1 King 18: 27. About noontime, Elijah began mocking them.``You'll have to shout louder than that,'' he scoffed, ``to catch the attention of your god! Perhaps he is talking to someone, or is out sitting on the toilet, or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!'' Living Bible, Paraphrased

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Craigbythesea

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    A HISTORY OF THE LIVING BIBLE

    by Al Maxey

    In the summer of 1957, a 39 year old man by the name of Kenneth Taylor claimed that "God planted in my mind the concept" of taking the Bible and rephrasing it in an innovative "thought-for-thought" form, rather than a word-for-word translation from the original Hebrew and Greek.
    In the upstairs study of his old farmhouse in Wheaton, Illinois he began trying out his theory on a few passages of Scripture. The results of his rephrasing work he would then read to his children during their family devotionals. The family liked it so well that he determined to spend more time in an effort to rephrase even more of the New Testament writings. In the months that followed, Kenneth Taylor worked nights, weekends, vacations and even during the 45 minute daily commuter train ride from Wheaton to downtown Chicago (where he worked at Moody Press) in order to produce a thought-for-thought paraphrase of the NT.
    His devotionals with his family (he was the father of ten children) continued to "come to life" as he used the passages he had translated. Soon he began to realize that perhaps other families could benefit from his work as well. He took his paraphrase of Paul's epistles, which he called "Living Letters," to several publishers, but was turned down by all of them. The Taylors finally dipped into their own savings and published 2000 copies of the "Living Letters."
    He rented half a booth at a Christian bookseller's convention in 1962, and managed to sell 800 copies. Four months passed without a single comment from anyone, then orders began to trickle in 3 or 4 at a time. He soon realized that he was going to have to print more copies, so stepping out on faith he dipped into savings again and printed 5000 more copies. Within a few months these had all sold, and he printed 10,000 more.
    About this time Billy Graham, who had read the "Living Letters" while recuperating in a hospital in Hawaii, decided to use Taylor's work as one of his "give-aways" on some of his telecasts. Billy Graham gave away nearly 500,000 copies in this fashion, and the demand for more began in earnest.
    Kenneth Taylor continued to work on rephrasing the rest of the Scriptures, and produced his efforts piece by piece. The Living Prophecies came out in 1964, The Living Gospels in 1966, The Living New Testament in 1967, The Living Psalms and Proverbs in 1967, Living Lessons of Life and Love in 1968, The Living Books of Moses in 1969, and The Living History of Israel in 1970. The completed Bible was finally issued in one volume in July, 1971 and was entitled The Living Bible: Paraphrased.
    His work has appeared in a great many different forms: The Reach Out Version NT (1969), The Way (1972), Soul Food (a version for Afro-Americans), and various other forms. In 1972 the Living Bible became the best selling book in the USA. In 1973 alone Taylor's royalties totaled $8 million!! By 1974 the LB accounted for 46% of the sales of Bibles in the USA, bringing in almost $29 million!!
    Kenneth Taylor, admitting that he had little or no knowledge of the Hebrew or Greek, made his paraphrase from the American Standard Version of 1901. It should not be forgotten that this work is a paraphrase of the Bible, and NOT a translation of it! As such it is little more than a short commentary on the Scriptures --- i.e.: what Kenneth Taylor thinks the Bible says; his interpretation.
    "There are dangers in paraphrases, as well as values. For whenever the author's exact words are not translated from the original languages, there is a possibility that the translator, however honest, may be giving the English reader something that the original writer did not mean to say!" (Preface to the Living Bible). Also in the Preface to the LB, Taylor makes the statement that in any place where it is difficult to make a decision as to what the passage really means, he goes by his own beliefs!! "When the Greek or Hebrew is not clear, then the theology of the translator is his guide, along with his sense of logic." The LB, in far too many places, is an expression of the logic and theology of Kenneth Taylor.
    "There are a number of areas where Kenneth Taylor and the Bible disagree; so if you have a LB, you have Kenneth Taylor's beliefs! You don't study a paraphrased version to build a doctrine any more than a contractor studies an artist's sketch to build a house. Paraphrases give a meaning. To build a doctrine you must use the blueprint!" (Warren Wilcox). "It is a commentary, not a Bible, and should be called a commentary" (Warren Wilcox).
     
  15. Craigbythesea

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    Here is another tidbit from the Living Bible, Paraphrased:

    2 Sam. 13:11. But as she was standing there before him, he grabbed her and demanded, ``Come to bed with me, my darling.''
    12. ``Oh, Amnon,'' she cried. ``Don't be foolish! Don't do this to me! You know what a serious crime it is in Israel.
    13. Where could I go in my shame? And you would be called one of the greatest fools in Israel. Please, just speak to the king about it, for he will let you marry me.''
    14. But he wouldn't listen to her; and since he was stronger than she, he forced her.
    15. Then suddenly his love turned to hate, and now he hated her more than he had loved her.``Get out of here!'' he snarled at her.
    16. ``No, no!'' she cried. ``To reject me now is a greater crime than the other you did to me.''But he wouldn't listen to her.
    17. He shouted for his valet and demanded, ``Throw this woman out and lock the door behind her.''So he put her out. She was wearing a long robe with sleeves, as was the custom in those days for virgin daughters of the king.
    19. Now she tore the robe and put ashes on her head and with her head in her hands went away crying.
    20. Her brother Absalom asked her, ``Is it true that Amnon raped you? Don't be so upset, since it's all in the family anyway. It's not anything to worry about!''So Tamar lived as a desolate woman in her brother Absalom's quarters.
     
  16. Bro. James

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    Is there any room to consider the history of "The Book of Mormon" in this discussion?

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  17. Ransom

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    Craigbythesea said:

    1 King 18: 27. About noontime, Elijah began mocking them.``You'll have to shout louder than that,'' he scoffed, ``to catch the attention of your god! Perhaps he is talking to someone, or is out sitting on the toilet, or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened!'' Living Bible, Paraphrased

    Best. Translation. Ever.

    And reading this for the first time was the first time I understood what kind of character Elijah was.
     
  18. Craigbythesea

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    Just exactly where in the Hebrew text do you find the phrase “out sitting on the toilet?”

    This is NOT a translation. It is not even a paraphrase. It is fiction.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. rsr

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    The ESV translators apparently felt the same way:

    "And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, 'Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.'"

    (It's also a footnote in the Holman.)
     
  20. Craigbythesea

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    The Septuagint has here, μη ποτε χρηματιζει αυτος

    [​IMG]

    [ October 10, 2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Craigbythesea ]
     

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