The Lord Jesus Christ and the Death Penalty

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    Do you believe that Christ Jesus would approve of the death penalty?

    Would he disapprove of it?

    Or is he silent on the issue? If the answer is silent - then are we as a sovereign nation permitted to give a death sentence?

    Please - no "opinions" the answers should be based on Scripture.
     
    #1 Salty, Sep 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2011
  2. webdog

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    Since He was the one who invented it, yes He approves of it.
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    :thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup::godisgood:
     
  4. Salty

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    Where does Scripture say that Jesus "invented" the death penalty?

    If you are talking about the OT law - than does grace change that?

    Anotherwards, what does the NT say about the death penalty
     
  5. JesusFan

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    In the OT, God commanded that IF someone kills another, takes their life in a premediatated fashion"first degree" murder, his life is forfeit "eye for an eye"


    In the NT, Apostle paul in Romans said that God ordained Governments to rule over people, and that they have the ;"sword" to mediate out justice, sign of "capital punishment for a capital offense"

    Also Apstle John did say that their is sin that will lead to death, and he hints at capital punishemnt in that crptic verse!
     
  6. Jeremiah2911

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    Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
    Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

    Matthew 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

    I have a hard time following your question--How could Jesus ever disapprove of anything the Father instituted?
     
  7. Salty

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    You used several OT references to justify the death penalty. and as you say ... could Jesus disapprove (of the) Father...

    Using that logic, then are you saying that Jesus would want us to participate in annual animal sacrifices.

    NOTE: as I got thinking about posting this, I currently have this in the "Debate" forum. I consider this more of a discussion - I am not trying to debate the Death Penalty (DP) issue, rather using NEW TESTAMENT scripture to back up the DP issue, pro, con or silence .
     
  8. JesusFan

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    2 points to ponder...

    God set up the "death penalty" before Law was even given to man, so based on His divine nature, a principle that since man was made in His own image, a capital crome deserved capital response

    Apostle paul said that the Stae has reserved by God to use it, in extreme cases, in order to keep order and the peace!
     
  9. preachinjesus

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    I don't think Jesus is at all silent and would challenge anyone who is answering affirmingly a place in the New Testament where Jesus affirms the death penalty. He certainly had many opportunities to let an execution go on as planned or allow someone to murder another person. Yet in each case He intervenes.

    In Romans 13 the power to execute is given to the state and withheld from the church. Now here we aren't talking about the church institutionally but the church as Paul (and the other NT writers saw it) which is the corporate body of individual followers of Christ. Thus when the church is not given the power of the sword it means its individuals members aren't to be part of its application.

    It bothered me last night that people applauded that Texas has such high execution numbers. It was a senseless moment in a trivial debate. Why are people happy that more people are being executed?

    I think the onus is on advocates for Jesus' support of the death penalty to show where, in the course of His New Covenant ministry, He allowed and authorized it to be carried out by His followers.

    The case isn't there imho. But I'll be interested to hear arguments.
     
  10. ituttut

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    We are told the Blood of man is different than any other. Man should not shed the blood of another human being. But before Cain shed the blood of his brother Abel, there was no Law against shedding the blood of man. Just as we are all from the blood of Adam, so are we of the blood of Noah.

    So can we begin at Noah, and find anywhere in the Bible, OT or NT, where this Law given in the beginning of mankind has been rescinded?

    Doesn't the Law of God still stand? If not is this not proof that it is only man that devalues those made in the image of God, and say God has not given authority to ANY MAN, especially one from Texas, to carry out the LAW GOD instituted. Political and worldly social views are held by many, but should be examined when comes up against God's Word.

    Isn't the burden on those that do not hold the Blood to be Precious of those made in the image of God? Should innocent blood not demand a penalty be paid of one that still lives in his blood? Cain got away with it, but God tells us it is He that has set the penalty. Is His Word worth anything?
     
  11. canadyjd

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    I do not believe Jesus wants Christians to support capital punishment for criminals. I base that belief on several passages of scripture. One of the strongest, I believe, is found in...

    I Tim. 1:16 "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."

    Paul (a murderer by his own admission) states that he is the foremost of all sinners and that Jesus showed mercy to him as an example that future Christians are to follow. We are to show mercy to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul. IMHO, support for capital punishment is contrary to that very specific command from God.
    I believe He disapproves of the way it is administered, which means Yes, I believe He disapproves.

    I believe Jesus changed the conditions for implementing the death penalty in John 8, with the woman caught in adultery. When Jesus tells the crowd that the one without sin is the one who is to first cast a stone, He isn't just saying that to shame them. He is referring to the O.T. Law for implementing the death penalty (Deut. 17:6-7)

    In the O.T. Law, 2 or 3 witnesses are the first to cast the stones, and then others are to join in the execution. Jesus changes that requirement from "2 or 3 witnesses" to the "one who is without sin". I believe Jesus is telling us we do not have the wisdom to implement the death penalty as God intended...impartially...without bias... etc.

    The only one without sin is God. Therefore, God is the only one who can administer the death penalty with perfect righteousness.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  12. Jeremiah2911

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    Amen, nice point; however, I wasn't giving you a volume in an answer, do you want me to copy and paste the entire book of Hebrews to explain we have a concrete NT answer regarding animal sacrifices? :) Your original question was would Jesus approve of the death penalty and I gave you just a couple NT Scriptures which should answer that question.....there is a difference between laws, statutes and ordinances, and I don't recall one time Jesus ever rebuking OT law [not statutes and ordinances] --The Pharisees tried to get Jesus to do that very thing in a capital punishment case:
    John 8:3-5 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

    and Jesus said: Oh, I'm a flaming liberal and would never approve of the death penalty!! [I'm sorry--I can't dodge an attempt at amateur humor:)]

    Actually He didn't say that, He said:
    John 8:6-7 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    Now do you see a rescission [of the law] in Jesus' words? No, we don't....Funny thing about that whole scene--where was the man? What was Jesus writing on the ground? Perhaps they had all committed adultery and He was writing their own sins? We don't know, all we do know is that their thirst for blood [if indeed that was what they wanted] was gone and they couldn't convict Jesus of denying the OT law [which, if I'm understanding correctly, is kind of like what you and all who want to say nay to the death penalty are doing]

    Amen, I can understand why because the question and answers that have been posted can only be described as "debate".....Peace
     
  13. webdog

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    I also think it's ironic that Jesus used the death penalty to atone for sin.
     
  14. Iconoclast

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    Canadyjd,
    Then why did God tell men to do it???
    According to your post, if that was true,God would not have instituted the death penalty to begin with...and yet he did very clearly.

    No....Jesus could have justly stoned the woman to death,or most of the men...but he had mercy on her....she deserved death under the law.
     
  15. freeatlast

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    Since He is the One who gave the death penalty in the OT He has already approved it in fact commands it.
    Also he validates its use in the NT.
    Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
    That is the death penalty.
    For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
    That is the death penalty.
     
  16. Martin Marprelate

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    In the Old Testament, God instituted the death penalty for breaches of many of the Ten Commandments.

    Following other gods. Deut 18:20 etc.
    Name of Lord in Vain. Lev 24:11ff.
    Idolatry. Exodus 32:27f; Numbers 25:1-5.
    The Sabbath. Numbers 15:32ff.
    Honouring Parents. Deut 21:18ff.
    False Witness. Deut 19:16ff.
    Adultery. Deut 22:22 etc.

    What these show, I think, is God's detestation of these breaches of His law, and it behoves us to fear Him and keep His commandments (Eccl 12:13), for He will certainly punish those who flout His holy laws.

    However, 'The law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Himself showed grace in His dealings with the woman taken in adultery. Rather than hand her over to be stoned, He commanded her, "Go, and sin no more." Obviously, in the case of serious crimes there needs to be punishment, but we should always hope for the repentance of the wong-doer.

    In short, yes, murderers deserve death, but if we all got what we deserve, I for one would be in big trouble (Psalm 130:3).

    Steve
     
  17. webdog

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    This is the second time the adulteress has been appealed to in order to refute the death penalty. Based on the law the accusers had to stone both of those who were caught. Since they themselves were deliberately violating the very law they were trying to enforce (sin), Jesus was pointing out their error and hyocricy with His play on words. Had nothing to do with grace over law, and does not support the elimination of capital punishment.
     
  18. freeatlast

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    I am afraid that you are confusing God's offer for forgiveness unto salvation and justice required in human relationships. The God of the OT is the same God of the NT and there is no difference in His grace or justice. The reason that the church is so dead in England is because it has rejected the word of God for its own standards. We are seeing the same thing happen here and it has nothing to do with the lack of mercy or grace but rebellion against the standards of God.
     
  19. canadyjd

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    It is just a easy to ask why God gave men commandments knowing they couldn't not keep the commandments. They show us our own inability and point us to our need for God. The answer is the same, I suppose, for why God implemented the death penalty in the Old Testament. When Jesus came, He showed us we don't have the wisdom to implement the death penalty.
    The question isn't whether she deserved the death penalty under the Law, my brother. We all deserve the death penalty.

    The requirements for implementing the death penalty are clearly changed by Jesus in John 8. He changes the requirements from "2 or 3 witnesses" to the "one without sin among you".

    I notice you didn't address the specific command in I Tim. 1:16 that Christians are to follow the example of our Lord Jesus Christ and show mercy with perfect patience toward the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul.

    Support for the death penalty is contrary to that very specific command.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  20. Iconoclast

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    CANY.....

    Blood defiles the land....NOTHING cleanses the land ,Except the BLOOD of the murderer.

    This along with Gen 9:6 has never been rescinded anywhere.
     

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