The Lord's Day

There is nothing in scripture that connects the Lords day to the Sabbath. They are not one and the same brother. If they were, their would be some connection and thus irrefutable.. but since there isn't.. it is.
Clear as mud :laugh:

 

:laugh: It is right next to the word trinity.

The verses in col 2, and gal 3 were speaking of Jewish ceremonial laws,which are now done. Finished . The OT theocracy is over....yes, I stated that and agree.

The ten Commamdments are in our heart now,The law is in our heart, if we are Gods child. All ten are still for all men everywhere.

Unsaved people will be judged by the law of God...not just 9 commandments,all ten.

They did not put 9 commadments into tha Ark of The Covenant, they put all ten.

Which one of the ten can christians despise?
Can we worship idols?
Steal, murder...some adultery?
Take The Lords name in vain?

This idea that Law is against grace...or we are now in an age of grace is another heresy. There are no lawless believers.

 

Allan, Do you believe the ten commandments were in effect before they were written on stone? The people that lived before Moses.....what law was for them? One day in Seven is a creation ordinance, before it was blended into the mosaic laws.
God rested. We should also.

 

This idea that Law is against grace...or we are now in an age of grace is another heresy. There are no lawless believers.

What exactly are you implying here? I hope it's not what I think. I don't follow the Sabbath as you say I should so does that make me lawless and therefore not a believer? You have already suggested that people who don't hold to the doctrines of grace are suspect and now it seems that you are suggesting the same of those who do not hold to the Sabbath rest as you interpret it to be. Hopefully I'm wrong (It won't be the first time and it won't be the last.). If I am then please accept my apology. If I'm not then I hope the moderators do their job.

 

If it would make that day come quicker, I would. But it won't. Yet if it would... I would feast and feast fast. Between feasts, I would fast till I feast. But since the feast won't bring on the big fest by feasting fast, I'll just pound my fist and fast first till it's time to feast.

 

Sag38
Thanks for your response. I am speaking about the idea that it is okay to be against all law. in the NT Paul says....the law is holy just and good!
Do you believe this? Some believe the law of God was done away at pentecost.....and there is only grace now,as if law and grace do not go together. Law and grace go together.
We do not keep the ten Commandments [or the mosaic laws,which were added,and finished in Christ],,,in order to be saved.
Once saved however we obey the ten commandments,and there expanded teaching[all lawful NT commands given by Jesus and the apostles]
Are we agreed here? I know you do not hold similar understanding on the D.o.G.....yet,:laugh:
Sag38 how do you see this bigger issue of the law.You have told me where you think I am off track several times.Tell me what you think on this?

 

How do you brethren view this from Isa.66

this speaking of a time after pentecost, how does this fit your system? literal? spiritual? both? sabbath rest while eternal in Jesus,yet this says from one sabbath to another

 

I think it is relative to the following:

 

There are plenty of verses that make the concept of a Trinity clear without using the word. However, to my point, there are plenty of verses, such as ones that I quoted in prior posts, that make it abundantly clear that Christians are not subject to a strict Sabbath day as defined in the Torah.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. And I believe that a literal Sabbath day observation is part of the ceremonial law.
If you want to argue that God instituted the Sabbath day before the Law and that this therefore proves a universal command to a literal Sabbath day, I would direct to you that animal sacrifices and circumcision were instituted before the Law, yet those have been fulfilled by the Cross.

Yes, the Law is in our hearts now, but we are not subject to everything strictly as they were given insomuch as Christ has fulfilled them.

For instance, we no longer perform ritual sacrifices because Christ has fulfilled them. The New Covenant equivalent is recognizing that Christ was the Perfect atonement and that we should give our bodies as a living sacrifice to God.
We no longer are subject to a literal Sabbath day because Christ has fulfilled that by performing His perfect work on our behalf. We now enter into His rest as our Sabbath.

We now no longer observe feasts as Christ fulfilled the types for which the feasts represented. Our feasts before God are our joy in His and His Person and Work. We are instructed to celebrate the Lord's Supper, which echoes the Passover, however.

I agree, but they will be judged by all ten in the sense that they never entered into Christ's rest for the Sabbath.

I agree, the Law is pure and still alive. It is just that now we do not follow it in the same incarnation as when it was originally given. We follow the Law of Christ which is the Law fulfilled. The New Covenant is not an exact mirror of the Old Covenant, but it has fulfillments for all the Old Covenant.

None.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

I agree. I consider myself a progressive dispensationalist/New Covenant theologian. I also am a sovereign gracer.
I am a covenantalist, but not in the same way that many modern ones are. The early reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, were NOT like the modern covenantalists who try to make literal mirror images of the Old Covenant into the New Covenant.

The whole law is fulfilled and exists in the New Covenant, but not all literally or with a literal equivalent.

There does not need to be a literal Sabbath day in the New Covenant to maintain the Sabbath. We have entered into Christ's rest. This is our Sabbath. There is no lawlessness there.
We do not have to have literal sacrifices in the New Covenant to maintain the sacrifices. Christ has become the perfect sacrifice. "Sacrifices" are performed in the New Covenant as we recognize Christ as our sacrifice and we present our bodies a living sacrifice.

The moral law is still there. We cannot murder, steal, commit adultery. These are also the laws of equity.

The Sabbath is part of the ceremonial law, and Christ has fulfilled all the types of the ceremonial law.

Understand?

 

Aresman,

I am glad to see we are mostly in agreement on many things..and i thank you for taking the time to present your understanding of these things.

What did you mean by "laws of equity"? give an example if possible.

The sabbath did become a part of the ceremonial law,with additional requirements added to it[The Lord Jesus Christ has completed and done away with those things]........on this we agree. I am not a judiazer!

There is an eternal rest for the people of God,In union with Christ..we have entered into His rest ....His finished ,once for all atonement Hebrews 10:10-14

The Lords Day rest is not meant to be the mosaic ceremonial sabbaths[plural] with feast days, new moons etc.

yet in hebrews 4 we see this;

At the end of chapter 3 he spoke of OT covenant breakers who could not enter into the "eternal rest"

here is an article that helps;

 

Iconoclast...

You are wrong.

The scriptures tell is that we are no longer under the Law, we are freed from the Law, we are dead to the Law, the Law has no power over us, Christ has freed us from the Law, and the Law is a curse that we are not under.

And that just from one small part or Galatians.

AiC

 

Actually....it is you that are very very wrong my friend;

opps you might have missed this one...

AIC.....if you understood Galatians that you are quoting you would see quickly that we are discussing two different things.

The 10 commandments in the Nt .....vs mosaic laws during the theocracy.

This list that you quote; is about Jews seeking justifcation by Mosaic laws,plus their tradition...which was not intended to justify them.

to try to be justified this way is death,we cannot do it.
We are justified by Jesus doing it....

 

Iconoclast...

You are dancing, brother.

You are dancing around it in a way that would make Fred Astaire proud. I've heard that song and dance more times that I could count.

You guys simply will not accept that the corpse is dead. You keep trying to ressurect the dead corpse

We are free from the Law. We are dead to it.

We live now under the New Covenant. Not the Old. Doesnt mean we throw those scriptures away, but we interpret them in light of the new covenant truth.

We have been set free. We are unshackled.

We live in the "newness" of the "Spirit", and not the "oldness" of the "letter"

Why?

Because

Praise the Lord

 

Your failure to address the scriptures I offered shows you are void of understanding. You say ;

The reason you hear it so much...is that anyone who knows the passages realizes you have bought into error ...big time. So they tell you the truth and you answer with fluff.

You are speaking of antinomianism......

Paul does not think keeping the ten commandments is resurrecting a corpse, in fact .....he says Love is fulfilling the LAW romans 13
I guess you would suggest to Paul that he lives in the "oldness of the letter"

this statement as it stands is the statement of the ungodly;
see psalm 1......the godly man delights in the law of the Lord...not so the ungodly.

 

Iconoclast...

You appear to have no understanding, or very shallow understanding, of the difference between...

The Old Covenant.

And...

The New Covenant

I urge you, with great sincerity, to dig into the scriptures, and do a heartfelt, diligent...OPEN MINDED...study on the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, particularly the diference between the two.

Its a foundation of truth that is of utmost importance.

You are simply confused. And I say that with no malice or any anger at all.

I say it "brother to brother"

Seek knowledge concerning the New Covenant, and the Old Covenant.

It will set you free.

Praise God.

 

AIC,
I believe you are sincere and trying to help,I am thankful that you are offering what you understand,as you say...brother to brother.

The point I think you do not see.....The 10 commandments were before the old covenant.....before Moses..2 cor 3...is speaking of Mosaic legislation

Do you see what i am saying here?

The 10 commandments are there first......

The mosaic laws were an expansion of the ten commandments ...for Israel at that time [the time of the old covenant]

Israel failed to keep the terms of the covenant at that time.

Jesus ...is the New Israel...he does not fail, but keeps the law for us[elect]

We are saved by Jesus law keeping....on our behalf

In the new covenant....believers have the law,ie, The ten commandments with the nt epistles an expansion of the ten commandments....that we have in our hearts.....

Paul is explaining the correct NT use of the law.....

vs 9 and vs 10 are speaking of the 10 commandments

Do you see it this time? Say yes,....you are giving me stress

here is some help;
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ai...&resnum=2&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Iconoclast...

You posted this scripture...

Thats an excellant passage of scripture. That passage explaines exactly what the Law is for...

TO CONDEMN.

Who does it say its for?...

Lost people! The LOST need to understand thier lostness. Their sinful condition. The understanding of their lostness is essential, so that they will be driven to Christ for NEW LIFE.

Once they are born again, the law has done its job. They now are in "the light".

They are no longer being convicted by the law, but rather, they are being taught and influenced by the indwelling Holy Spirit, who now lives in them.

Its a beautiful way to live.

Its now time for me to get some sleep. Good night to you and your's.

AiC

 

Here is more help if you are serious about this topic;

 

Alive in Christ and all concerned.

Would remember the sabbath day to keep it holy be somewhere in the context of loving God with all your heart?

Well I just read 2 Cor. 3 again so let me ask, Is it the letter of the law that transgression of brings death done away with or it is death itself or is it both that are done away with?

Now without law there can be no transgression yet John says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Therefore the law must exist. Being sin is the transgression of the law.

Is the sabbath command one of those laws we must confess of in order to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus?

You know the very existence of Bible forums should worry Christians. Think about this. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

After all one deceived dosen't know he is deceived or he would not be deceived.

Maybe this should be a new thread. If anyone think so please start one.

 

Iconoclst...

You posted this......

I also love the law, as this passage says. The law is God given, and it has its
divinely appointed purposes. To searve as a standard of morality, and to cause
Gods people to see thier wretchedness, and thier need for Divine help.

I wont comment on any of that because I generally agree with it. Nothing in there is
problematic regarding my view..

I dont see anything in any of that that that disturbs my point .
240

No problem for me. The Law still serves as a moral guide, and it continues to cause
honest lost people to realise thier depravity. and turn to Christ.
At that point, the child of God is freed from Law, and its condemnation.
They are then living in the "newness of the Spirit", as opposed to the oldness of the law.

Because the law brings death, while the Spirit brings life.


Here are some good passages of scripture for you to consider....

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not]b] of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.