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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by John3v36, Jan 3, 2003.
If you do not believe in unconditional election.
Why do you pray for the lost?
John I hope teh intent of this thread is more than just the same old cal/arm debate. If not there is a complete forum for that subject.
Kal-El said it was Okay! all bible open topic are open to discuss with other Fundies.
Okay... I am a Fundamental Baptist...I don't understand terms such as unconditional election or Cal/Arm...even though some have tried to explain them...they just won't stick in my brain.
I pray for the lost...so that they will make a decision for Christ. That is also the reason I go Soul-Winning....the great commision...Go into all the world... He who winneth souls is wise...Aha! Nothing is impossible with God...because with God all things are possible. I could go on and on...but my fundamental belief is that prayer is my communication with God...the Word of God the Bible is his communication with me. In it it says to Go...so I go...in it it says to pray...so I pray. Big words, and other forums...may be useful to many other people who have found this subject to be complex and worthy of such big words...that my mind can't seem to understand...but I think it's simple...the Bible...ie: God said to do it...and my church has stood in practice of doing it...so I don't have to be a genius...to like Nike...Just do it.
How will praying for them Cause them make a decision?
That's a tall question. How does prayer work? I don't know... I just have evidence that it does. I prayed for my sister to accept the Lord as her saviour for 8 years...and last April, she did. Was it because of my prayer? I would like to think it was? Can I prove it? No, I can't even prove God's existance... I just have faith.
I believe God hears and answers prayers, so therefore prayer on any subject makes a difference.
[ January 03, 2003, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: kate B...007 ]
Because Jesus prayed for them, Jn 17:20.
I think the gist of the question is this.
If God does not choose His saints, but has limited His sovereignty in salvation by which man much choose Him of His own choice, then is not the prayer asking God to bypass that choice?
Prayer does more for the pray-er than it does the one prayed for. By praying for others, we demonstrate by our actions what we say we believe. We demonstrate our faith in God to do that which we are told he will do.
Though we are not supposed to vainly pray in public, but rather in our "closet", the only one we should be trying to impress is God who is there in our closet with us.
Much Prayer = Much power
Little prayer = little power
Does anyone on here believe that Jesus will lose a one that he died for even though the Holy Bible states this is an impossibility?... Will not ALL Gods children that God gave to the Son to save be saved?... How can any be lost and what are they lost to since Jesus said he will seek those that are lost?... Do you have to tell him they are lost so he can find them or does he already know this and where to find them?... Does the mortal man control the actions of the eternal God and his Son Jesus Christ or is it the other way around?... Remember what God told Satan you can touch anything that belongs to Job but his life... because Satan his life belongs to me!... I know a lot of people that are lost to the truth but I know I will see them in Heaven as the truth wasn't lost to them... I am the way the truth and the life... no man comes to the Father but by me! Will he lose of one of his blood bought grace wrought sheep... NEVER!... Brother Glen
[ January 05, 2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
Are you saying that praying for the Lost does not accomplish anything for the person without Christ?
If so, then why not pray about something that can be affected.
If you are saying that it does do something toward their salvation, then what does that say about free will?
If you believe in unconditional election of the arbitrarily selected FEW of Matt 7 - why do you pray for the lost?
If God is truly "unconditional" then your request can not possibly change anything - it can not be a condition upon which God decides to elect someone.
On the other hand, If you believe "God is not willing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance", And you believe God stands at the door "And Knocks - IF ANY man hear my voice and open the door I WILL come in" then why ask God to do what you know he is already doing? Is it because you are seekoing "wave after wave of mercy and appeal to the lost"?
If so - you just might be thnking of the following scenario ...
Lets try the Arminian view of the future - where you go to heaven as one of the "FEW" and find that your precious child was one of the "MANY" of Matt 7.
(Note: There is a God, there will be a day of judgment, not everyone is going to heaven. So we would then have the following scenario - that you might "expect" if the doctrines of Grace as seen in the Arminian teachings are true..).
[ January 07, 2003, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]