The Man of God

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Don, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. Don

    Don
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    I'm troubled lately by those that are referenced as this, and those that reference themselves as this.

    When should we question the man of God?

    Exactly who is the man of God?

    What designates one person the man of God as opposed to another?
     
  2. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    God called David a man after His own heart.

    Whenever we have a serious doubt about him being wrong. My Pastor advises this.

    When I hear a reference to a man of God, I think of a preacher or pastor.

    IMHO, I think it is the 'call' of God on his life.

    I have often heard, "touch not God's anointed".

    I have always assumed that meant a preacher whom God had 'called' and anointed to preach His Word.
     
  3. Don

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    I've often heard "touch not God's anointed" to mean don't question the man of God; don't even doubt the man of God.

    That's what's driving this topic.

    If you have a bible program, or can reference this in your bible, do a search for the phrase "man of God". It appears more than once.
     
  4. Watchman

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    Originally posted by Don:
    I've often heard "touch not God's anointed" to mean don't question the man of God; don't even doubt the man of God.
    __________________________________________________

    Was the Apostle Paul a man of God?
    But yet, of the Bereans, after Paul spoke to them it is said:
    These were noble than those of Thessolinica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11
    Did Paul say, "I'm the apostle Paul, what I say is the very word of God; you don't need to check what I say with the scriptures?" No, in fact he felt they were noble in doing so.
    I think we've gone overboard on the, "Judge not", passage in Mt. 7:1,2. It seems to have replaced John 3:16 as the passage of choice for this generation that pleads for tolerance, which actually means, comprimise.
    You are well within your rights to question what someone says. Even the Lord Jesus said:
    Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39
     
  5. Don

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    Men of God:

    Moses (Deuteronomy 33:1, Joshua 14:6, 1 Chronicles 23:14, 2 Chronicles 30:16, Ezra 3:2, Psalm 90:1)
    Unidentified (angel of God -- Judges 13:6,8)
    Unidentified (1 Samuel 2:27, 1 Samuel 9:6-10)
    Shemaiah (1 Kings 12:22, 2 Chronicles 11:2)
    Unidentified (1 Kings 13 -- was led astray by the old prophet of Bethel and subsequently punished for disobedience?)
    Elijah (1 Kings 17:18,24; 2 Kings 1:9-13)
    Unidentified (1 Kings 20:28)
    Elisha (2 Kings 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 13)
    Unsure (2 Kings 23; the man of God referenced in 1 Kings 13?)
    David (2 Chronicles 8:14, Nehemiah 12:24,36 -- but was taken to task by Nathan)
    Unidentified (2 Chronicles 25:7,9)
    Igdaliah (Jeremiah 35:4)
    Timothy (1 Timothy 6:11, 2 Timothy 3:17)
     
  6. Don

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    And Watchman, it's not me that has a problem questioning the man of God, especially when I know there's a problem; it's how do you deal with those that have toed the line on "don't question the man of God"?

    This thread is meant to explore just how much we're supposed to place men on a pedestal, I guess....
     
  7. Watchman

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    Originally posted by Don:
    And Watchman, it's not me that has a problem questioning the man of God...
    __________________________________________________

    Sorry Don, but I concluded YOU from, "When should WE question..."
    I just don't know from what you have posted here what the problem is.
    But as to IF we can, or should, question what an, "Elder" (pastor, deacon, etc.) says or does, the answer is yes.
     
  8. Tim

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    If Christ is on the throne we don't need any man on a pedestal.

    I've seen too many pastors placed upon one--with the ultimate end bringing shame to the name of Christ. Sometimes by the pastor's fall into sin, other times by the abuse of his authority over the flock of God (note whose flock it is).

    Question your leaders when they are out of line--if you don't, I believe Christ will someday question you for not doing so.

    "The servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (12 Tim. 2:24,25)
     
  9. Don

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    That's a good observation, Tim; but all too often, I've heard it the other way around. That we won't be questioned for following the man of God, but that the man of God will have to answer for leading us astray (i.e., it's not our fault; we were obeying like we're supposed to).
     
  10. Daniel David

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    Yet another reason why God established the plurality of elders to lead the local church. This single pastor model builds him up to a king-like status.
     
  11. TWade

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    Amen!
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    Only when he is a bad leader. In which case, the answer is not a plurality of leadership but rather a godly leader maintaining the biblical model. Get rid of king like pastors. Don't coddle them.
     
  13. Don

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    But Pastor Larry, how do you get rid of king-like pastors? When they've trained their congregation to never question the man of God? That if the man of God tells them what the will of God is for them, then they need to do what that pastor is telling them? etc., etc.?
     
  14. timothy 1769

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    Hebrews 13:17
    Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

    If they aren't telling you to sin, obey them. Is it really more complicated than this?
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    If you can't vote them out, then leave the church. A church with no one in it will not long survive. I would go one on one and talk with them. Then I would talk with the deacons. After that, I would simply leave.

    This problem is a problem that is Catholic in nature. This "head that no one can question" is not Baptist. I encourage my people to study the Bible. My leadership is not so insecure that I am worried by that.
     
  16. Don

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    But Timothy, how can I obey a man who preaches from the pulpit that the women of that church had better wear skirts? But his own wife and daughters are frequently seen wearing shorts while doing yard work?

    But if I bring it up, the exact verse you quoted is immediately tossed out?

    And what exactly does "have the rule over" mean? I thought the pastor was the shepherd of the flock, not the king?
     
  17. timothy 1769

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    Is this man truly an elder, qualified according to the Word of God (1st Timothy 3)? If so, in your church he has the rule over you.

    Is he telling you to sin? Is wearing a skirt except for yard work a sin? If not, then I think the Bible clearly teaches you should simply submit and obey him. Consider that God knows what he's doing in placing Him over you and requiring your submission to him.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    Part of the whole issue is the need to understand that authority comes from Scripture rightly taught. If Scripture is not properly taught, then there is no real authority. If a man stands up and uses God's word to demand that women wear dresses, he is not teaching Scripture properly. Thus, he has no authority. He might stand up and say this is his preference, or his conclusion, and he might encourage you to do such. But Scripture never, anywhere, demands that women wear only dresses.

    So the answer is, Study your Bible and then leave and find a church where Scripture is properly taught.
     
  19. Don

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    Timothy, I hear you loud and clear.

    Perhaps you should consider: David, the man after God's own heart, clearly labeled the man of God, committed adultery and murder. God sent a prophet (someone never referred to, in my studies, as a man of God) to proclaim David's iniquity to him.

    Can you honestly say that you aren't that prophet? That I'm not? That God isn't trying to use you or I to proclaim the waywardness of a man of God?

    Consider the man of God in 1 Kings 13; he told the old prophet of Bethel that God told him not to eat or drink, and the old prophet led him to believe that God had revealed to him that he could eat and drink. Subsequently, God punished the man of God for disobeying.

    We MUST be careful that we're not leading the man of God astray; but we must also be careful that we're not allowing others to lead him astray. Sometimes that means questioning the man of God, doesn't it?

    I have to agree with Pastor Larry: If it's not a sin issue, then it shouldn't be preached from the pulpit, and the pulpit shouldn't be used to hammer those that God hasn't convicted (Romans 14:5).

    Timothy, my brother, I had to deal with a man like this a few years ago. It was one of the most painful experiences in my life, because I didn't want to question him; I didn't want to cast doubt upon him. So I met with him and another member of the church, and between just the three of us, aired my questions and concerns. The other gentleman agreed with and confirmed a couple of my concerns, and the pastor admitted that his own wife had rebuked him before about another.

    There's more to the story, but suffice to say the conversation was turned, and I was basically given an ultimatum, to which I ended up leaving the church that night. The next day, in front of the whole church (I got this from friends who were there), both he and the other gentleman stated from the pulpit that they didn't know why I had left.

    We must guard our pastors, but we must guard ourselves that we don't place them on the same level as Christ. We mustn't follow blindly; we must follow scripturally, which means all of us must test the spirits to see if they're of God.

    Timothy, do you understand what I'm saying? If you truly think I'm coming from a spirit of rebellion, please don't mince words, and let me know.
     
  20. timothy 1769

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    Pastors should be held accountable for sin through church discipline, just like everyone else. David was comitting murder and adultery. Your pastor isn't demanding to sleep with your wife, just that she put a skirt on. [​IMG]

    I agree that a pastor's concern must be for the welfare of his flock, and in this he differs from a king. He has authority, but for your benefit.

    Even so that doesn't give you the right to rebel every time you don't agree with his biblical reasoning or don't understand how his commands benefit you. You are called to submit to him.

    Of course there are limits. But his authority and your submission need to be real. If you are ordered to commit obvious sin, you need to obey the Lord. But just because a command is difficult, or annoying, or humiliating is not enough to warrant disobedience. The general teaching of the new testament is that we are to submit to our authorities because God has ordained them. To rebel against our authorities is to rebel against God.

    Hebrews 13:17
    Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

    1Timothy 3:1
    This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

    One of the requirements of an elder is his proven ability to rule well. Elders are to rule in the church.
     

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