The Manhattan Declaration

No, they haven't. But they have removed several of your other posts for containing personal attacks.

 

Yes, many sincere Christians have signed it. Some who signed it now say they regret it after reading the very articulate arguments from others about why they did not sign it.

Many believe this document is an extension of the ECT document (Evangelicals and Catholics Together) spearheaded (I believe) by Chuck Colson.

Even though outwardly it does not seem to be related to doctrinal issues, many have astutely pointed out that it is. Someone posted some links to those who have written why they did not sign it (and these men did not cast aspersions or attacks on those who did sign it). I think it would be good to read those. I did read them and they convinced me through very sound reasoning why I would not sign it.

 

I'd sign it.

I believe those who signed it are our brothers and sisters in Christ. I wouldn't let our differences get in the way of a unified Christian response. If we don't stand together against evil, and allow our differences to divide us, what's left but the enemy to pick up the pieces? Do you really think that unbelievers would care about doctrinal differences Baptists and Catholics, let alone between Arminians and Calvinists?

It's either "divide and conquer" or Jesus' prayer of unity

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

 

Unbelievers may not, but Christ does.

Where did Christ ever tell us to unite with religions that preach a false gospel?

Peggy, are you familiar with the Reformation? Do you know what the central issues involved were?

 

You should read at least one of these. They are not long.
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/the-manhattan-declaration/

http://feedingonchrist.com/more-on-the-manhattan-declaration/

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2009/11/30/the-manhattan-declaration/

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2009/11/nineteen-questions-for-signers-of.html

 

Yep, as they have done with you, so that's a nonissue. The fact is, my aforementioned comment wasn't a personal attack, no matter how much you might want to think so.

 

Peggy, are you familiar with the Reformation? Do you know what the central issues involved were?

I'm no dummy

I think that we should stand with fellow Christians against evil in the world.

I don't think that God has a doctrinal/denominational checklist in hand to determine who gets into heaven, and neither should we.

What He does ask of us is to love Him and love our neighbor. Not love "correct doctrine" as we see it.

 

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.


1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.


1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.


1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.

 

OK. So what were the central issues of the Reformation?

Really? So then, you don't think that God is concerned with whether or not someone believes in justification by faith, through Christ's atoning work?

Before I break out the scriptures, are you sure that God doesn't ask us - no, command us - to love and defend sound doctrine and to be seperate from those who preach a different Gospel?

 

If Christians had stood together when abortion was first an issue back in the early '70's, who know what we could have accomplished? Christians who believe in Jesus and the basic tenents of Chritianity need to stand together against evil.

We are so great at creating circular firing squads!

 

Hmmm, good point. Should my church refuse to volunteer with Habitat for Humanity just because the local Catholic church and Jewish synagogue are also volunteering?

More to your point, should your church be chastized for attending an organized anti-abortion protest, just because Catholics and Presbyterians are there as well? It seems so similar to teh story of the goos samaritan, except that I'm think of the first two folks to passed the man by.

 

But at what cost? Even stopping something as evil as abortion is not worth compromising the Gospel.

But what about those who don't believe in the basic tenets of Christianity? Should we stand with them?

Anyhoo, could you please take a minute to answer the following questions:

What were the central issues of the Reformation?

Do you think that God is concerned with whether or not someone believes in justification by faith, through Christ's atoning work?


Are you sure that God doesn't ask us - no, command us - to love and defend sound doctrine and to be seperate from those who preach a different Gospel?

 

In the story of the Good Samaritan, that's what the first folks who passed the man on the road must have thought.

 

Come on JohnDeere Fan, I can tell, you are just dying to tell us, please dont keep me in suspense anymore, tell me the the central issues of the Reformation.

 

Good post Peggy, especially your point on abortion. Some denominations still support abortions. The Roman Catholic Church took a stand against Roe v Wade long before Baptists did.


Although various Roman Catholic groups denounced the ruling, and Christianity Today complained that the Roe decision "runs counter to the moral teachings of Christianity through the ages but also to the moral sense of the American people," the vast majority of evangelical leaders said virtually nothing about it; many of those who did comment actually applauded the decision. W. Barry Garrett of Baptist Press wrote, "Religious liberty, human equality and justice are advanced by the Supreme Court abortion decision." ]\Indeed, even before the Roe decision, the messengers (delegates) to the 1971 Southern Baptist Convention gathering in St. Louis, Missouri, adopted a resolution that stated, "we call upon Southern Baptists to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother." W.A. Criswell, former president of the Southern Baptist Convention and pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, expressed his satisfaction with the Roe v. Wade ruling. "I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person," the redoubtable fundamentalist declared, "and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed." [my bold]

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en...d=455943&articleId=667609&func=5&channel=News

The above writer is not partiularly friendly to the so-called religious right but I have read the remarks by Criswell elsewhere.

In Memory of Dr. Harold O. J. Brown
by Motte Brown on 07/18/2007 at 4:20 PM
I was on vacation last week when it happened but I wanted to mark the passing of Dr. Harold O. J. Brown on Sunday, July 8, 2007. Dr. Brown was the founder of Care Net, a pro-life organization that supports a network of 1,090 pregnancy centers in North America.
Here's an excerpt from Care Net's press release:

Considered one of the great theological and philosophical minds of our generation, Dr. Brown gave his life to impacting the culture with the hope and healing offered through Jesus Christ. After the Roe v. Wade decision, Dr. Brown was moved by the tragedy of abortion, both for the unborn child and the mother, and troubled by the apathy within the Protestant church. With the inspiration of philosopher Francis Schaeffer, and the guidance of Billy Graham and pro-life Catholic leaders, Dr. Brown founded the Christian Action Council in 1975. In 1980, one of the first pregnancy centers was opened in Baltimore, Maryland. In 1993, the organization changed its name to Care Net, with a new, laser-focused mission of mobilizing Christians to plant and support pregnancy resource centers.

In a 2003 interview with the Care Net Report, Dr. Brown spoke about the apathy within the Protestant church and of how Roe v. Wade caught evangelicals by surprise when the decision was handed down.
It was Sunday night, the 21st of January and Arimond Nicolia (Professor at Harvard), including [myself] and others were gathered to discuss the impending decision. Dr. Lou Bird, then with the Christian Medical Society (later to teach at Grove City College, PA) said, "What are we to say regarding the extreme cases of abortion?" Most people thought only about the really "hard cases."

Then the next morning the Supreme Court dropped the bomb. But few Evangelicals really thought through the consequences of Roe v. Wade. The late A. W. Criswell (head of the Southern Baptist Convention) was critical of the early pro-life movement, saying essentially "we don't really know" what abortion is. Later, Criswell changed his mind and came out against it. The Evangelical response was weak. The mainline churches basically supported the decision as it was the "law of the land" and this was generally viewed as a good thing. The Baptists waffled, the Presbyterian Church USA, United Methodist Church and the Religious Coalition of Abortion Rights all supported abortion rights. Only the Presbyterian Church in America, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and the various conservative Lutheran denominations opposed the decision. [my bold]

It took the late apologist Francis Schaeffer to galvanize the Evangelical community against Roe v. Wade.

But as Kurt Entsminger, President of Care Net, said, it was Dr. Brown's rallying call that led hundreds of thousands of Christians to open pregnancy centers in their communities. And hundreds of thousands of children's lives have been spared from abortion as a result.

 

How is the Manhattan Declaration compromising the Gospel?

 

Sadly, not only are many baptists ignorant of the reformation, they would prefer that we all reunite with Rome, at least to the point that we would unite with other protestants.

OR, the MD compromises the gospel in that it mixes the Gospel and Christian unity in with civil activism.

I can work with a catholic to stand against injustice as a fellow citizen of the United States and of the State of Indiana.
I can not work with a catholic on ANYTHING as a fellow Citizen of the Kingdom of God.

Catholics teach a different gospel. WHen the gospel is downplayed that is a serious issue. Abortion is evil. But the reformers thought the sanctity of the Gospel was more important than their own lives.

Were they wrong?

 

I myself have many friends who worship as "catholics", any one of which, I am happy and honored to stand shoulder to shoulder with in service to Our God. Certainly, there are doctrinal differences between us, but I am proud to know them as fellow believers in Christ and partakers of God's marvelous grace.

 

http://toughquestionsanswered.wordp...atholics-affirm-justification-by-faith-alone/

Peter Kreeft is a well respected scholar,philosopher, theologian. Much can be gained by any believer reading his multitude of books.

 

Yes, he is a respected scholar, etc. but he still holds to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, which has many unbiblical teachings. All you have to do is read through their Catechism. The teaching of Purgatory in and of itself undermines the gospel and the atonement of Jesus Christ.