Featured The Many Insurmountable Difficulties of Futurism: The Temple of God

OldRegular · Jan 29, 2015

Yeshua1 said: ↑

The manof Sin will male the temple obligations cease, and will proclaim himself as being God, so how can that be the Papacy?
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Actually Jesus Christ made the temple sacrifices worthless and in 70AD He used Rome to destroy the temple as He said in Matthew 24! You do know that when He died on the Cross the vail of the temple split!

OldRegular · Jan 30, 2015

Protestant said: ↑

The Body of Christ is comprised of those Elect worldwide (Jew and Gentile) who make up the many members of Christ’s Body.

Christ is the Head of the Body….the Head of the Church Universal.

The Pope, on the other hand, declares he is the Head of the Universal (Catholic) Church on earth.

Baptist theology correctly states the above definitions which support my view:

Please note the cross reference to 2Thess 2.

Baptists define the Temple of God as the Christian Church in which the Papal Antichrist claims to sit as Head.

I urge you to study the historical theology of Baptists.

The old paths are so much wiser than the new.

The local congregations are composed of both Elect and non-Elect, saved and unsaved, the wheat and the tares.

Yet both are considered part of the local church.

Both profess Christ yet not all who call Jesus Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Sadly, many of the unsaved stand behind the pulpit.
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The Baptist Faith and Message adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention in Atlanta, Georgia on June 14, 2000 writes of the Church in Section VI as follows:

The New Testament speaks also of the Church as the Body of Christ which includes all the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.
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Sort of goes against the Darby-pre-trib-rapture-ready-dispensationalist grain does it not!

John Walvoord, former president of Dallas Seminary, writes, regarding the definition of the church, [Major Bible Prophecies, page 282]:

“If the question be asked: Will the church be raptured before end-time events? it becomes very important to define the church as an entity that is distinct from Israel or saints in general. In prophetic passages concerning the Tribulation, both Israelites and Gentiles are described, and some of them have faith in Christ and form a godly remnant. If they are part of the church, then the church is in the Tribulation, and the whole question as to whether the church goes through the Tribulation becomes moot. Many posttribulationists, in an attempt to establish their own point of view, beg the question at the very beginning by assuming that the church includes saints of all ages. The concept that the church is distinct from Israel is a part of dispensational truth that distinguishes the work of God in the Old Testament under the Mosaic Law, the work of God in the present age as he calls out both Jews and Gentiles to form the church as the body of Christ, and the millennial kingdom in which the saints of all ages participate in various ways but maintain their individual and corporate identity. Hence, the church will be raptured or resurrected, and will reign with Christ in the millennial kingdom, but the saved of Israel as well as the saved of the Gentiles who are not part of the church will also be part of the millennial kingdom. Distinguishing the church from saints of other periods that precede or follow the present age is essential to a correct answer on the pretribulational issue. It is not too much to say that the doctrine of the church, or ecclesiology, determines this aspect of eschatology.”
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We see from the definition of the Church as presented in the Baptist Faith and Message and the remarks by Walvoord that the doctrine of a pretribulation rapture of the Church contradicts current Southern Baptist Doctrine as well as historic Baptist Doctrine.

David Kent · Feb 26, 2018

DHK said: ↑

Perhaps you have proven that you do not rightly divide the word of truth.
First, in this day and age the body is the temple of God or the temple of "the Holy Spirit which you have of God," which is more precise (1Cor.6:19,20). That is speaking of our relationship with Christ.
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When people use "rightly dividing" it usually means they think they are right and everybody else is wrong. Usually it is they who are wrong.

DHK said: ↑

Keep in mind that Paul is writing to a church, ekklesia, an assembly or local church. Keep in mind the historical context. How would the believers at that time understand this epistle. There was no such understanding or any such concept of a "universal church" in the first century.
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Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Only one church.

DHK said: ↑

My authority is not in man, but rather in the Word of God.
Let's go to the Scripture.
In the Book of Acts Paul comes to Miletus. He couldn't go all the way to Ephesus so he calls for the elders or pastors to meet him there. They are the elders of the local church at Miletus.
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That comes from wrongly dividing.

The phrase "Local Church" doesn't appear in scripture.

"I will build my church;" Not - "I will build my local church;"

thatbrian · Feb 26, 2018

Protestant said: ↑

Futurists would have us believe the temple of God found in Rev. 11 is a literal future re-built Jewish Temple located in Jerusalem.

However, Jesus’ statement contradicts that teaching:

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple [Gr: hieron] and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. [Gr: hieron]

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Rather than illustrate the destruction of the Temple in vague terms Jesus specifically details the destruction in such a way as to lead the unbiased reader to conclude that the Temple shall not only be thrown down, but it will stay down.

And down it has stayed…..for nigh unto 2,000 years thus far.

To further guarantee it stays down, the Lord has sovereignly raised up the Palestinian Sunni Muslims so that they would build their most sacred mosque, Dome on the Rock, on the very grounds upon which the Jewish Temple once stood.

So then what does the temple of Rev. 11 refer to if not a literal re-built Jewish Temple?

Scripture gives us the answer.

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, [Gr: naon] and in three days I will raise it up.

Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

But he spake of the temple [Gr: naou] of his body.

(See Strong’s Concordance # 3485, naos.)

Please note that the literal temple of which Jesus was speaking in Matt. 24 uses the Greek noun hieron (Strong’s Concordance # 2411).

When speaking of the ‘temple of the body’ the Greek noun naos is always used.

Know ye not that ye are the temple [Gr: naos] of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

If any man defile the temple [Gr: naon] of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple [Gr: naos] of God is holy, which (temple) ye are.

What? know ye not that your body is the temple [Gr: naos] of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

And what agreement hath the temple [Gr: naou] of God with idols? for ye are the temple [Gr: naos] of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple [Gr: naon] in the Lord.

Let us now examine Rev. 11 to determine whether the Temple cited in the Greek text is that of hieron – the literal temple – or naos, the anti-type of the Jewish Temple……….the body of Christians in whom the Spirit of God dwells.

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple [Gr: naon] of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

But the court which is without the temple [Gr: naou] leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

In point of fact, the temple of Rev. 11 and all other references to the Temple of God in the Revelation speak of the spiritual temple of believers.

I encourage the reader to discover for himself that the only Greek noun used in the Revelation referring to the temple of God is naos.

Now let us consider, another prophetic Scripture in which the phrase temple of God is utilized:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple [Gr: naon] of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Once again, we have confirmation that the temple of God about which the Holy Spirit speaks is the spiritual temple of God: the Body of Christ: the professing Christian Church…..not a literal re-built Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

Antichrist will be a fraudulent professing Christian who will claim rule over the professing universal Christian Church.

That fraud is the Bishop of Rome: the reigning Pope holding the Papal office.

Futurism is a false teaching whose origins are found in the perverted teachings of the Papal-worshipping anti-Christian Jesuits.
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I have no idea how a Christian would think that the temple will literally be rebuilt, along with animal sacrifices - no idea.

BobRyan · Feb 26, 2018

Protestant said: ↑

Futurists would have us believe the temple of God found in Rev. 11 is a literal future re-built Jewish Temple located in Jerusalem.

However, Jesus’ statement contradicts that teaching:

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple [Gr: hieron] and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. [Gr: hieron]

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Rather than illustrate the destruction of the Temple in vague terms Jesus specifically details the destruction in such a way as to lead the unbiased reader to conclude that the Temple shall not only be thrown down, but it will stay down.m.
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Good point.

And then we have this in Rev 11

18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Protestant · Feb 27, 2018

David Kent said: ↑

When people use "rightly dividing" it usually means they think they are right and everybody else is wrong. Usually it is they who are wrong.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Only one church.

That comes from wrongly dividing.

The phrase "Local Church" doesn't appear in scripture.

"I will build my church;" Not - "I will build my local church;"
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"Amen," I say, as a non-partisan biblical breath of exegetical sanity sweeps across the Baptist Board, through the likes of brothers David Kent and Brian.

Our spiritual forefathers -- [John Purvey included, as Rippon wisely numbers him among the catalogue of outstanding saints] -- understood the true Church as comprised of all God's Elect throughout history.

David Kent · Feb 27, 2018

DHK said: ↑

-I assume you are referring to this "temple."
First, no it is not a "Christian" temple. Remember that by this time, "Christians" will have been raptured. They won't be there.
The Temple will be Jewish. Jewish Temples are desecrated, not Christian temples. An unbeliever cannot desecrate a Christian temple, for his temple is his body (1Cor.6:19,20).
I don't know what books you read. I don't know anyone who defines the temple of 2Thes.2:4 as a Christian Church--absolutely no one. You are out to lunch on that one.
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That is an absolutely false teaching which goes to the heart of the problem. There is no pre tribulation rapture. The saints will be raised on the last day and the judgement will be on the last day as I have posted before,

It is appointed for man once to die then the judgement, One judgement.

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