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The Mass Card

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ray Berrian, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly Active Member

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    Sanctification is a process. No one is completely sanctified until he is made perfect in Christ, after death. HOWEVER, sanctification takes place only in those who have experienced JUSTIFICATION, which takes place at the moment of repentance and commitment to Christ by faith alone, what we call when one is "saved."
     
  2. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    I'd be Careful Debby in Philly, you almost sounded Catholic with a response like that.
     
  3. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber <img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">

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    Grant,

    What about he who dies right after being baptized? The Church teaches that such an individual goes straight to heaven without any need for Purgatory. ;)
     
  4. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    Debby,

    If nothing impure can enter Heaven, and we are purified through the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, and your sanctification is completed after death...pray tell, where does this sanctification occur? It's not on earth, because you're dead. It's not in Heaven, because you can't be in Heaven until you're perfectly sanctified.

    Please do explain.
     
  5. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Grace Saves,

    I believe your question was something to the affect that what happens to a Christian who's sanctification has not come to its completeness or perfect.

    In theology we learned there is positional sanctification. In I Cor. 1:1-2 the Greek reads ' . . . to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints . . . ' This happens when we
    receive Christ as sinners. [John 1:12; I John 3:2]

    Hebrews 10:10 tells us that we are sanctified {set apart to the Lord} once for all. In other words, we cannot be re-sanctified from the Lord's view of our soul or being. This is not to deny that we do not repeatedly through our lifetime rededicate our lives to Him and His service on earth.

    The second term we learned was that of experiential sanctification. As Christians we have our spiritual highs and lows, we at times may fall from our steadfastness and devotion to the Lord, but He being our Shepherd always prods us to the place that He wants us to be, which of course, is in His perfect will. Our hearts are pierced through and through if we sin against Him, and we immediately return to the Father because we are 'like a fish out of water' when we get off course. Because the Spirit of God never abandons us, [John 14:16; I John 3:9; Hebrews 13:5d] we have an inner sense that our lives are not right and that we do not have peace in our lives. In extreme cases, the Lord has to discipline His children, the people of God. [Hebrews 12:5-8]

    Our final sanctification is the third classification. When we were first saved and/or came to love Jesus in our hearts, God has come to see us through the blood/atonement of Jesus Christ. This means that although Original Sin remains in our lives, [I John 1:8] His covering for this sin and sins of omission and commission are purged in His sacrificial blood. It is only because of His faithfulness to us that He can keep His promise to us of the reality of everlasting life. [John 3:16] Although we desire to love Jesus and to serve Him, our salvation does not depend on our spiritual perfection or good works, otherwise we would not fully need Jesus saving benefits to us.

    At death we immediately see Jesus [II Cor. 5:8 & Philippians 1:23] the One Who we cannot see while living here on earth. Habakkuk the prophet in 2:4c way back under the Old Covenant reminds us that we live by faith and not by our seeing Jesus in this life. His words are: 'the just shall live by his faith.'

    Although all Christians go directly to Heaven we are clearly told that Jesus will bring these saints with Him when He comes for the living saints that will be alive all over our world. I Thessalonians 4:14b declares this fact.

    Also, when He comes for His glorious church as duly noted in I Thessalonians 4:13-18 we shall rise to Heaven with Him. In the next chapter in verse 23 the Greek indicates that our final sanctification will be complete at {Greek word 'en'} the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, our perfection will not be fully realized until He returns for the dead and living saints who are on the earth.

    Every Christian who dies immediately takes on a 'glorified body like our Lord.' [II Corinthians 5:1-4. At the coming of the Lord for His church, all the people of God, He is going to change us-body, soul and spirit, into His likeness with a complete spirituality.

    A good three point sermon would be Positional Sanctification, Experiential Sanctification and Final Sanctification. Although we cooperate with God the Spirit, He must do all the ministration of His Divine work in our lives.
     
  6. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    Ray,

    I love how you keep adding immediacy to verses that don't even speak about time frame. That's great.

    Debby,

    Looking forward to your reply.
     
  7. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Grace Saves,

    How are Christians who are not perfect taken to Heaven. The answer is stated in your title, "Grace Saves." No one saves himself or herself by conduct in order to be made fit for Heaven. Ephesians 2:8-9. Our faith in Jesus saves us forever. [John 3:16] No Eucharistic sacrament, no pope, no priest needed; believe it or not Jesus can handle the matter all by Himself, even though some think His work schedule is too busy and that He diverts to Mary some of His ministrations when things get hectic.

    Christ sanctifies us once for all, says, Hebrews 10:10. I know it will stretch your faith but try it, you will find great comfort in it.

    Also, in Hebrews 10:11 the priests had no power to take away sins, just as your hybrid Roman priests today have no power to take away sins. The Bible says, 'If we confess our sins, He {Jesus not a priest} is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'
     
  8. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Carson Weber,

    We are all waiting with bated breath as to the official meaning behind the Mass Card that people pay for so a mass can be offered by the priest on behalf of a deceased Roman Catholic person. Really, are 'good works' or merits passed on to the soul of who is in limbo?
     
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