The Meaning of the Word “Perfected” in Heb. 10:14

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0

    Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



    HP: You tell us Darrell. It is obvious you are the one who believes you have somewhat to expose by your understanding of the word ‘perfected’ as mentioned in that passage. Let me point out one thing before you enlighten us. Just because a word is defined as ‘completed’ in one sense does not mean that in every verse the same restraints can be placed upon the word ‘perfected.’ Perfection is thought of in differing realms and senses and will by no means be locked into any one idea it may reasonably have in this one passage in the particular sense it is used in. If you believe you can establish the sole meaning of the ideas of ‘perfected’ or ‘perfection’ by the manner in which it is used in this one passage, I would disagree. Such an approach fails to recognize the clear distinctions between perfection used in moral sense and perfection used in other senses.

    Fire away. Show us the truth of the word ‘perfected’ in Heb. 10:14 as you see it. :thumbs:
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    From Albert Barnes Commentary:

    I agree with this and will not argue with you.





    Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z]
    perfected
    PER'FECTED, pp. Finished; completed.


    Strong's
    teleiow teleioo tel-i-o'-o
    from 5046; to complete, i.e. (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character):--consecrate, finish, fulfil, make) perfect.
     
    #2 Amy.G, Feb 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2010
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Your quote said this

    On that, we agree.
     
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    HP: On that I agree. The idea is that the grounds of salvation was complete and needed not to be repeated.
     
  5. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    But you have to work for the rest of your salvation for that to be complete in you theology
     
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0

    HP: Some exhibit the need for study concerning the nature of love, and the lack thereof. :)
     
  7. Darrell C

    Darrell C
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,249
    Likes Received:
    118
    hi Heavenly Pilgrim,

    Join me in the thread perfection, and you will see that, unlike some, I do not rely on one verse to establish doctrine.

    One book, yes.

    Especially when that one book is so strong in doctrine and flows with the whole word of God.

    I encourage you to join in for the study, it will be a blessing.

    God bless.
     
  8. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    Better is open rebuke than hidden love. :thumbsup:
     
  9. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    JK, obedience out of a heart of love is not 'working' for ones salvation. One that says they love God and does not obey Him, Scripture calls them a liar. Obedience is a natural response when one truly has loves towards God. Disobedience is sin, and sin, apart from repentance and faith, will separate one from God. Obedience is not 'working' for salvation any more than showing love to ones spouse is 'working' for love. Obedience towards God’s law is a condition of salvation, without which love simply does not exist. Ones formed intents show forth the true state of the heart.

    Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

     
  10. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    Saved by grace...kept by works is what YOU just made a case for. If you are going to stay in this camp.......call it what it is "Saved by grace-kept by works"!
     
  11. steaver

    steaver
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,005
    Likes Received:
    82
    Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    You agree on the idea of the first part of the verse yet reject the idea of the latter.

    Hebrews 10 compares the Old Covenant with the New Covenant.

    OT; Hbr 10:1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    NT; Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    OT; Hbr 10:3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year.

    NT; Hbr 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    What your theology does is it makes Jesus sacrifice no different than a bull or goat. You really need to get with God in prayer and ask Him to show you Jesus sitting on His throne as the PERFECT High Preist who makes sure ALL His imperfect children make it home.

    :godisgood:
     
  12. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    Amen! :jesus:
     
  13. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: We are saved and kept by the power of God, yet no one will be saved apart from their voluntary repentance and faith, and none will be kept apart from continued obedience.

    You, as so many others, will not dare come to the truth of the distinction between that which is thought of in the sense of ‘that for the sake of’ and those things required that are always thought of in the sense of ‘not without which.” You confuse the grounds of salvation with the conditions He sets forth, ‘without which’ we shall not see God.

    Man is kept by the grace of God, but not without, or apart from, obedience on our part. If man is to be kept, man must fulfill the conditions of being kept, i.e., obedience until the end.

    2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
     
  14. steaver

    steaver
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,005
    Likes Received:
    82
    This is "Faith plus Law keeping" for salvation. Whether you call it a "grounds" or "conditions". Word plays change nothing. The skunk is still a skunk! It stinks either way. :laugh:

    Paul rebuked this and said if ye believe this way ye have fallen from grace. Ye are shipwrecking your faith.

    :jesus:
     
  15. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    HP: I hope you have the occassion to ask Paul concerning his comment you refer to. I for one believe you are far from the truth.
     
  16. steaver

    steaver
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,005
    Likes Received:
    82
    Paul already spoke to this...

    Gal 5:4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.



    This would be those who believe they must keep the Law to be justified by God.

    :godisgood:
     
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: I would hope as well that you have the opportunity to set James straight as well. Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
     
  18. steaver

    steaver
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,005
    Likes Received:
    82
    James has already set me straight.

    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    YE SEE THEN??

    Works proved his Faith (which is what saves him) was True. Do ye see then? How the works fit into this? They do not save, they prove the faith is genuine.

    DO YE SEE THEN? James is asking you HP. Or do ye want to add works to God's grace for salvation?

    Have you ever read one commentary that says James is declaring one is saved by their works? Post just one for me. Maybe they exist, I never read one.

    :jesus:
     
  19. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    45
    Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
     
  20. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: Here we go again. I have never stated works saved. Not once. They are always thought of in the sense of 'not without which' not 'that for the sake of,' but what it truth to thee???

    Speaking of double talk. If you really believe works prove ones faith then you would have to conclude that if works are not consistent with ones faith, such a one is not going to make heaven their home if they continue on that path. But oh no. Works, according to you, have “nothing to do with ones salvation, not in gaining it and not in keeping it’ so there you have it, nothing but double talk. All sin, again according to you has been paid for, past, present, and future, and NO sin can separate one from their relationship with God, or so you would have us believe. So much for works proving ones faith from your perspective. That which one believes does not make dittily squat in regards to ones eternal standing before God (sin in a believers life in your case) cannot be ‘proof’ of anything.
     

Share This Page

Loading...