the miracles in the Bible

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Goinheix, Aug 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Goinheix

    Goinheix
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    in the Bible, God's miracles can be amusing and great, but the porpose of a mirecle is never to be an amusement or a display of power with wonderfull features.
    In the Bible the miracles have always a clear porpose in each case. But unfortunately some christians only see the wonder and amusement instead of the real meaning and porpose of it.
    Aparently, for many christians the idea of a miracle is not other than demostrating that God power is above natural laws and logic.
    In my opinion is God who did stablished all natural laws and is Him the first to respect those laws.
    A miracle is not at all a rupture or infraction of God law for the nature.
    All miracles can be explained as acts of God that dont breack any natural law.
    Unfortunately, for too many christians, if a miracle is not breaking a natural law is not a miracle...and God dont do anything without breaking natural law.

    What if a miracle or all miracles can be explainig as God manipulating the nature without breaking it? Is that too ofensive for you?
     
  2. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    It is becoming more and more clear that your understanding of Scripture and theology is not evangelical and marginally orthodox.
     
  3. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    I think you were a bit too kind when you placed the word "marginally" in this post, Brother.
     
  4. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,185
    Likes Received:
    370
    A miracle is something natural or supernatural that is uniquely timed to bring glory to God. My daughter's healing is supernatural. Even the best pancreatic surgeons in the country can't explain why she is better. We can. GOD
     
  5. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Goinheix,
    The miracle you need to know for certain about is the new birth from on high that happens when you really repent and believe in the Lord Jesus.

    If you will experience that miracle all the false teachings that you have posted on this site will be corrected.
     
  6. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Out of curiosity:

    1. How does one explain the virgin giving birth to a child using only 'natural' means?

    2. How does one explain the resurrection (any of them) using only 'natural' means?

    3. WHY would you feel to need to go to such great lengths to do so?
     
  7. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Often God uses natural means in a miracle. But it is still a miracle nonetheless. Here is a good example.

    Nathan, Dothan, and Abiram had rebelled against Moses.

    Here is what Moses said:
    19 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.
    30 But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD. (Numbers 16:29-30)
    --The earth opening her mouth is an obvious reference to an earthquake.

    And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
    32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. 33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation. (Numbers 16:31-33)
    --The earthquake happened. It happened immediately, as soon as Moses finished speaking those words. It was a miracle because of the timing. Moses had no knowledge that any earthquake was coming. He was not a seismologist. It was God that told him of the manner of punishment that these men would receive, and God gave it to them in this supernatural way; supernatural because it came at the exact time when Moses said it would. Moses did not have the power to cause the earth to open; thus it was supernatural.
    The Lord, however, does choose to use common events such as this whenever possible. It is the timing of the events that make them supernatural. You cannot command earthquakes at any time you like, or any time in your life for that fact. You are not God.

    The miracles of Christ were above nature. They demonstrated his deity. They were not simply earthquakes. They went beyond nature, against the laws of nature--that which you claim was not done.

    1. He took a few fishes and a little bread, and with it fed 5,000 men. Fish and bread do not multiply on their own so quickly. Nature cannot explain this. This is against nature. It is supernatural--above nature; outside the realm of nature.
    2. He walked on water, and bid Peter to do the same. No man in history could do that and did do that. This is above and outside the realm of nature. Gravity dictates that a man should sink. They did not sink.
    3. He changed water into wine. This was supernatural--beyond the realm of natural laws. One does not get wine from water. It is impossible. It is supernatural.
    4. He calmed the sea. He had power over the waves of the sea. Even the sea obeyed him. He had power over his own creation. No man can bring the Creation under his power. But Jesus of Nazareth could.
    5. In Mark 2 he healed a man with a withered hand and then he forgave his sins. Even the Pharisees acknowledged that only God forgives sins. The healing was evidence that he could forgive sins. The many healings that he did were evidences of his deity. No one else could do that. He worked without medicine. (Although you might attribute healings to natural causes, the great number of healings can only be attributed to the deity of this man--Jesus of Nazareth--who he was known as. See Mat.13:55.
    6. The greatest miracle of all, other than his own resurrection, was the resurrection of Lazarus. Lazarus had been dead four days already. He lie in a tomb bound in grave clothes which weigh about 100 pounds. Martha protested, "Lord, by this time he stinketh." He was beginning to rot. Yet Jesus went to the tomb. John 11:35, the shortest verse in the Bible, showing human compassion, simply says: "Jesus wept." Then Jesus commanded, "Lazarus come forth!" And Lazarus came out of the tomb grave clothes and all. And they unbound him. And he stood before him without any effect of being dead whatsoever. No man could do this except God himself. Jesus of Nazareth brought Lazarus ought of the grave. He raised him from the dead. He gave him life. This is against the laws of nature. It is supernatural--above and beyond all laws of nature. Can you do this? No of course not. It is not natural. It goes against nature. It demonstrates the deity of this man, Jesus of Nazareth.
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    23Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

    24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

    25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.




    many see or hear of Jesus miracles, and do not believe...is that you?

    many of us did not believe in Jesus at one time, and we also would deny His person and work...as you are doing now,

    You question the kenosis, omniscience, now miracles.

    God has purposed to save a multitude of sinners In His Son..All God draws to the Son,and grants saving faith to,will believe in all these things that you question/deny.....They might not fully understand all aspects of it,or be able to fully understand exactly what God is doing in them......but they all come, they all believe,through a God given faith.
    If you do not have this saving faith that all of God's children are given,enabling them to welcome truth...I would stop posting false ideas, and instead seek God's face in prayer ,asking if God will have mercy on you.
    To deny the Son of God means you do not have The Father, or Spirit also.
     
    #8 Iconoclast, Aug 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2011
  9. Goinheix

    Goinheix
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    if you think that my understanding of the scriptures are not evangelical...you have to prove it. You must quote a statement of faith, a confesional of any evangelical church saying different than me.

    you are reported.
     
  10. Goinheix

    Goinheix
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    you are reported

    it is necesary to quote any creed of statement of faith of any christian church to determione if they teach different than me.
     
  11. Goinheix

    Goinheix
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    3. Because I strongly believe in a God that is not changing and is not changing his creation. Because I believe that God do not breack the same laws that he have stablished.

    2. Resurrection is explained by the fact tha the life is in God, in Christ. Actually, the life itself is Christ...life and resurrection. Jesus, Paul and many other prophets did bring life back to a body with no life...restoring its life.

    That is not breaking any natural law. The only difficulty is to explain how or why the desd body did not enter into corruption in the meanwhile. Any how, I dont say that I have the answer for every single question or miracle.

    1. The virginal conception was a miracle. We all agree. We do not agree in if that miracle included a break of natutal laws. I dont have all aswers. In the 1970`we did know litle of human conception. At that time we - the new born - had the question on fron where it came the male cromosomes of Jesus. In the next decades we knew abou in vitro conception, and later of clonning, and more recently abot the human genoma. Aparently we humans did not discovered yet the key to explain the virginal conception withou breaking natural laws. We need to be patient.
     
  12. Goinheix

    Goinheix
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    First you have to learn to behave as a real christian and to respect the forum rules beside basical human respect. You can not call me a non-christian. That is proving of your lack of any better argument.

    you are reported...and will nor recieve any warning at all.
    you will be able and encourage to continue with your low attitude and i will be ban for the minimun excuse.
     
  13. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,547
    Likes Received:
    212
    If the contention is that all of Jesus' miracles can be explained within "natural law," then please explain Lazarus.
     
  14. Goinheix

    Goinheix
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    did the doctros take note of that supernatural healing? did they study the case to see how it was possible? did they published the unike and supernatural healing?

    if they didnt is because the doctors did undrstood very well how it hapens.
    i am happy for your daughter healing...probably it was because of the mercy, love and power of God...a genuine miracle...but without btraking any natural law
     
  15. Goinheix

    Goinheix
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    this is exactly my point.
     
  16. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    That wasn't my point. I gave only one example of that.
    Why not read the rest of my post which refutes that position, and respond to it???
     
  17. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    I shall wear your reporting as a badge of honor.
     
  18. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I told him that I would report him for falsely reporting on Jesus. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is easy to do when you do not know Him.
     
  20. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I know what he said. He said Jesus did not know what he was given at the cross.
    1. He was given wine. He knew that. He could probably smell it a good distance before it even got to him.
    2. Secondly he refused what they were about to give him because he knew what it was. It was a narcotic meant to dumb the senses. But he needed to "endure the cross," to take the full payment of our sins upon him, not just a part of him--endure all the pain with all his senses in tact. He refused it therefore. He knew what it was.

    The statement, repeatedly made by him, that he did not know what was given to him was false. He falsely accused my Savior. And thus my statement was quite accurate.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...