The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by poncho, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

    Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

    The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour.

    The Tories said Labour had presided over a decade of spiralling violence.

    In the decade following the party's election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million - or more than two every minute.

    The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:

    • The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
    • It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
    • The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
    • It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.
    But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.

    In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.

    CONTINUE . . .



     
  2. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where to start.....?

    1. 'Violent crime'. Apparently this includes burglary (although admittedly it's about as clear as mud in the way they've set it out).

    2. According to the article, we're 13th (out of 27 EU member states) ranked for homicides. So, not exactly 'murder capital of the EU'.

    3. The last Sandy Hook-type tragedy in the UK happened nearly 17 years ago, after which nearly all hand guns were banned. Since then, no repetition - it doesn't really take a genius to make the connection.

    4. If you believe what you read in the Daily Heil, then I have a bridge to sell you... Daily Mail song; Evrything gives you cancer according to the Mail.

    5. As an apparent fan of the 2nd Amendment as presently interpreted, do you really want the Daily Wail to park its tanks on your lawn?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-449191/Students-allowed-guns-campus-argue-gun-lobby.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rained-use-guns-classroom-protect-pupils.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Lanzas-survivalist-mother-obsessed-guns.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...ental-illness-solution-mass-shootings-US.html
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    I don't think most Americans understand UK tabloid journalism
     
    #3 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2013
  4. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    BBC News UK:

     
  5. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    An opinion piece, not factual reporting.
     
  6. Bro. James

    Bro. James
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,643
    Likes Received:
    15
    There may be more than 6 billion opinions in the world not necessarily based on fact, usually rumor, malicious gossip and inuendo.

    Most folk believe exactly what they choose to believe regardless of the facts--that may be a fact, not necessarily verified by the National Enquirer.

    We live in an armed camp--arms dealing is a lucrative worldwide business, along with opium derivatives and other pharmacopia.

    Smith and Wesson is still an effective deterrent. Keep your powder dry.

    Best plan: store your treasures in heaven--no thieves there.

    Even so, come Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #6 Bro. James, Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2013
  7. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    I think Piers Morgan is helping us to understand how UK tabloid journalism works.

    1. Yes violent crime. Violent crime goes up when gun ownership is restricted.

    2. Still your violent crime rate is is higher than ours. 2000 per 100,000 vs 466 per 100,000.

    3. The rate of using a handgun to commit a crime was quite low 17 years ago. It hasn't gone down as a result of the handgun ban.

    By the way, the average yearly homicides from 1990 to 1996 was 601. For the time period after the ban started it was 707, an 18 percent increase. Second, the number of homicides remained higher than the immediate pre-ban rate despite a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004. [1]

    It doesn't take a genius to figure out your handgun ban didn't reduce the number of violent crimes.

    4. In other words the statistics compiled by the EU commission are null, void and of no effect if the Daily Mail reports them. Yeah, I get that Matt.

    5. What I'd really like is to keep the right to defend my family and myself from injury or death at the hands of a criminal "without fear of being dragged off to court and jailed for life"

    Conversely, the (UK) government would not find it acceptable to allow its subjects to possess any type of gun (even a licensed, registered .22 rifle) for home protection. Defensive gun ownership is entirely illegal, and considered an insult to the government,

    We don't have that fear here. You can keep it. We don't want to go in that direction. Thank you very much.


    More recently, a 2000 report from the Inspectorate of Constabulary charges Britain's 43 police departments with systemic under-classification of crime – for example, by recording burglary as "vandalism." The report lays much of the blame on the police's desire to avoid the extra paperwork associated with more serious crimes.

    Britain's justice officials have also kept crime totals down by being careful about what to count.

    "American homicide rates are based on initial data, but British homicide rates are based on the final disposition." Suppose that three men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the event counts as a three-person homicide, but in British statistics it counts as nothing at all. "With such differences in reporting criteria, comparisons of U.S. homicide rates with British homicide rates is a sham," the report concludes.

    Another "common practice," according to one retired Scotland Yard senior officer, is "falsifying clear-up rates by gaining false confessions from criminals already in prison." (Britain has far fewer protections against abusive police interrogations than does the United States.) As a result, thousands of crimes in Great Britain have been "solved" by bribing or coercing prisoners to confess to crimes they never committed.

    Explaining away the disparity between crime reported by victims and the official figures became so difficult that, in April 1998, the British Home Office was forced to change its method of reporting crime, and a somewhat more accurate picture began to emerge. In January 2000, official street-crime rates in London were more than double the official rate from the year before.

    CONTINUE . . .

    The way your police and government keep track of crime stats are, let's say different than the way our police and government keep track of them. Your politicians and police exclude many crimes that we include to keep the numbers low to give you the impression the rate of crime is lower than it is. So you don't even know what the actual violent crime rate is in the UK if you go by the "official tally". You only know what the government allows you to know.

    And if anyone shows different numbers than the Home Office, it's "tabloid journalism" or "opinion". Right?

    Its seems the way the official UK crime stats themselves are gathered and presented to the public is based more on opinion than factual reporting.
     
    #7 poncho, Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2013
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    LOL. Fair point :)
     
  9. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    #9 poncho, Jan 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2013
  10. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    January 11, 2013 (LD) Violence is driven by socioeconomic and cultural factors, not the mere presence of firearms. The statistics clearly show this, and the very same statistics manipulated by so-called "gun control advocates" irrefutably contradicts their agenda's premise when put into proper context. Worse yet, the obsession over gun control sidelines the urgency needed to address issues like poor education and dismal economic prospects for those living in the most destitute and violence-stricken neighborhoods in our country. ​
    UK vs. Japan: 2 Unarmed Societies, 2 Vastly Different Homicide Rates.

    Despite both nations being disarmed and having almost no "gun-related homicides," according to UN statistics*, Japan and the UK still have an astronomical gap in homicide rates. Why? A visit to either country reveals an entirely different culture, education system, infrastructure, and socioeconomic paradigm. This is why despite Japan having a much larger population, even total homicides are lower than the comparatively more violent but less populated United Kingdom - with homicide rates in the UK nearly 3 times higher than those in Japan.

    According to the UN's study, which includes the most recent annual data available, Japan, with a population of roughly 130 million, had a mere 506 homicides over the stretch of a single year. Conversely, the UK, with less than half of Japan's population (53 million) had 722 homicides. The rates per 100,000 people for Japan and the UK are 0.4 and 1.2 respectively. The UK, despite being an unarmed population, and having virtually no gun violence, still has 3 times the murder rate than the nation of Japan. Those that are murdered in the UK or Japan, are just as dead as any human being murdered by a gun in the United States. And clearly, this indicates that the presence of guns, or their banning, is not a significant factor driving homicides and violence.

    CONTINUE . . .
     
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,215
    Likes Received:
    1,318
    You seem to have overlooked Derrick Bird who, on June 2, 2010 in Copeland, Cumbria killed 12 and wounded 11 before committing suicide.

    The truth is, whether you like it or not, that Great Britain is over 4 times as violent as the US. Every single country that has disarmed their law abiding citizens has experienced a massive increase in crimes of violence.
     
  12. AntennaFarmer

    AntennaFarmer
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    606
    Likes Received:
    0
    This seems to be a good excuse for a story.

    I visited a factory in South Central Virginia some years back (maybe about 15). Perhaps you realize that this is redneck country where guns may well outnumber the residents. (I use the term redneck with all love btw).

    Usually engineers tend to look pretty bland. Two of the engineers I met there were from Britain. Their appearance was rather frightening with the hair and ear rings and scruffy beards. They looked like bikers to me. They really stood out.

    So this guy (who appeared to be dangerous himself) astounded me when he said that the biggest reason he moved here was to get away from the violence in Britain. I had no idea.

    Go figure....
     
  13. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Thank you Matt. You are a man of your word.

    You did try to respond substantively. :thumbsup:
     
  14. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasn't aware that Copeland shot up a school? And even if you include that tragedy, that's still only one in the last 16 years versus how many in the US?
     
  15. Bro. James

    Bro. James
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,643
    Likes Received:
    15
    Has anyone compared atrocities among unarmed stoute drinkers and unarmed ale drinkers?

    We are all still fighting to be first on the treadmill to oblivion.

    Maybe there are degrees of depravity.

    Jesus paid it all.

    Even so, come Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  16. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    As sad and shocking as these mass shootings are they still only make up less than one percent of the violent crime in this country. And they all take place in areas where the people have been denied the right to defend themselves (gun free zones) by crazed killers that have been taking prescription drugs that are known to cause violent and suicidal behavior.

    Why is there no debate about the obvious dangers of these drugs? To our credit there are many schools in this country that are addressing the real problem of being left defenseless against armed attackers by our loving and caring liberal politicians.

    Our rate of violent crime has been going down while the number of guns and gun owners has gone up. How's your own violent crime rate doing? Oh I'm sorry you wouldn't know because your government has a habit of fudging the numbers to give you a false sense of security.
     
    #16 poncho, Jan 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2013
  17. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    About every two weeks in the United States, four or more people (not including the killer) die in a mass killing. Some get little media attention. As frequent as they are, however, mass killings make up only about 1% of the roughly 15,000 people murdered in the U.S. each year.

    CONTINUE . . .
     
    #17 poncho, Jan 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2013
  18. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
  19. Paul3144

    Paul3144
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,378
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you think that other factors beside gun ownership contribute to the discrepancy?
     
  20. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is bound to be multi-factoral in causation, yes. But gun ownership is I think one of those factors.
     

Share This Page

Loading...