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Featured The Myth of Russian Aggression

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Aug 9, 2014.

  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Making more claims you can't back up with evidence now? Is that supposed to give you "credibility"?

    Bearing false witness is becoming quite the habit with you lately CMG. You must be desperate to believe your own propaganda over all the facts and evidence. So sad.
     
    #41 poncho, Aug 11, 2014
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  2. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Well, it is a good time to buy stocks cheap. But if you don't keep up with current events, it is your own fault that you can't connect the dots. So far no one agrees with you that Russia is not aggressive.

    Don't shake hands with the KGB Lt. Col. He has blood on his hands.
     
  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Connect the dots? You mean like Washington being behind the overthrow of the Ukrainian government? Yeah, I connected those dots with evidence even, which is more than you have even attempted to do.

    That would make Washington and the neocons that have infested it the "aggressor" in this yet another hair brained neocon regime change plot that's doomed to failure like all the others and there's a long long line of failed regime change plots going back to Iran in 1953 which ultimately, failed. Libya. Failed! Syria. Failed! Iraq, Failed!

    Don't you care that the people you follow are insane psychopaths that have caused the deaths of millions of people and the destruction of our own country? Your neocon heros have more blood on their hands than anyone they accuse of being a murderer.
     
    #43 poncho, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Supposing I were to post this:

    Funded and organized by the Russian government, deploying Russian consultancies, pollsters, diplomats, the two big Russian parties, United Russia and the Communist Party, as well as Russian non-government organizations, the campaign was first used in Chechnya in 2006. Russia's U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin played a key role. And last year, he repeated the trick in Ukraine.

    Is that good enough proof that Russia is up to no good?
     
  5. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I don't think Obama has any neo-cons working for him and I don't think that any neo-cons support Obama. I don't know why you bring that up.

    Are you saying that the best course is to let Russia and Putin have their way? It sounds like the old better red than dead thing, huh?

    Don't shake hands with Putin, Poncho.
     
  6. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    :laugh: Always stay true to form eh? Whatever Poncho says turn it around 180 degrees and bluff. :laugh:

    Obama works for the neocons, not the other way around. I only bring it up because there's reams of documents and mainstream news articles that provide enough evidence to make your own paranoid fear based conspiracy theory look silly by comparison. Which as you and I both know is why you have to keep refusing to look at them and keep on playing the role of the paranoid fear/hate monger.

    As if that can stop the truth from getting out. News Flash partner, it ain't working anymore. Your guys have lied and conducted one to many failed regime changes using the same old lies and propaganda.

    They sound like a broken record. Man, they don't even bother to tell new lies they just keep recycling the old ones over and over and over again.
     
    #46 poncho, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Don't shake hands with KGB Lt. Col. Putin, Poncho, for fear that you will get blood on your hands.
     
  8. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Like your guys don't? Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle.


    Wall Street Vs. Russia

    Wall Street's poorly hidden, poorly coordinated agenda in Russia. Who is behind it?

    1. Wall Street-London's Defense Team for Jailed Russian Oligarch Khodorkovsky

    The background of jailed Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky and his "Open Russian Foundation" fashioned after George Soros' Open Society Institute and chaired by both Jacob Rothschild and Henry Kissinger, can be found in William Engdahl's, "The Real Crime of M. Khodorkovsky," as well as in the London Telegraph's humorously titled, "This man is now the people's billionaire," reflecting the paid-for rhetoric of Khodorkovsky's Wall Street-London-appointed lawyer Robert Amsterdam.

    In the latest round of attempted destabilization in Russia, it may be instructive to look at the "Khodorkovsky & Lebedev Communications Center," a website developed in part by Robert Amsterdam and what is called an "international legal team." Coincidentally, it fully embraces the narrative peddled by the West and its corporate media that the Russian elections were "rigged." However, this accusation tenuously hinges on the work of US-funded NGOs including Golos - fully funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

    Just as Robert Amsterdam is doing in Thailand, where he is using his "defense" of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra as a point of leverage to in fact induce regime change in the Southeast Asian country, his defense of Khodorkovsky also aims not at defending his client legally, but at using his case to undermine and ultimately overturn the leadership of Russia. It is done in a concerted effort with the US State Department, the corporate media, and a vast network of US and European subsidized NGOs sowing sedition within Russia itself.

    khodorkovskycenter.com

    2. Neo-Conservatives Attempting to Encircle Russia with NATO

    The Neo-Conservative Foreign Policy Initiative, whose membership has helped engineer and promote every war in at least the last 30 years of American history, clearly enumerates what it believes the next steps the US should take toward Russia should be. These include continuing the encirclement of Russia with NATO and its controversial "missile defense" efforts, continuing to build up the Republic of Georgia as a menacing proxy-threat lying on Russia's borders, and "supporting human rights" focusing on the "Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2011" which seeks yet again to sanction members of the Russian government based on disingenuous "human rights" concerns, just as the FPI and its collaborators did in Libya.

    Read More At: http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/wall-street-vs-russia.html


    This is what you call "connecting the dots" CMG.
     
    #48 poncho, Aug 11, 2014
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  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Now, now, Poncho, Open Society was for ending the embargo on Cuba so they are on your side. Besides Soros is a communist so he would support Russia.
     
    #49 church mouse guy, Aug 11, 2014
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  10. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    Hmm... Avoiding the question?
     
  11. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps if you post the link to the thread you asked me this question I could point you to my answer.
     
  12. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    Seriously? Are you that unsure of your position? It was a simple question: How do you determine the legitimacy of your news sources?


    You- "So, how do you decide which source is dubious and which isn't?"

    Me- "I have no well-planned criteria. I would say that I consider its primary motivation (Almost always financial, but not necessarily bad. It becomes questionable when it is obvious that marketing of the product takes priority over its accuracy.). Another is reputation of honesty (CBS/Dan Rather and the Killian documents, for instance.). A third would be agenda/obvious bias. Also general reputation for accuracy. Fifthly, Do they report facts that are independently verified? (If not immediately, eventually.) Lastly, gut feeling/basic impression...is there an unexplainable feeling that something is not right.

    This is not all inclusive, but you get the idea.

    If I may, I would like to ask you the same."


    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=94443&highlight=news+source&page=3 (posts 23,24)
     
  13. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, that whole Siberia place is really just as big as burbs of Providence anyways...

    Besides those maps are a great example of how to spin news. Look at the ill-fated Warsaw Pact prior to its collapse and then the democratization of the former Soviet-bloc countries, which has been economically and politically successful for them, and then add where they've been in yearly increments and you'll see the real story.

    Do you not think we know history and see through these things? And your rhetoric?
     
  14. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Dude, you just called someone a liar on this forum over an issue we've almost all agreed is being over analyzed but you. At what point does your detachment from reality begin to allow you to call people liars?
     
  15. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    A good indicator might be what is considered a reliable, truthful news source v. mainstream propaganda.
     
  16. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Okay, let's look at the sources used in the link from the OP:

    There are two sources from the Guardian News, a legitimate UK news agency. One is citing the piece the post is critical of, and the second is a commentary from over 10 years ago about geo-political issues in Ukraine. This second source is odd since the current leadership in Kiev is entirely different from the leadership in 2004. Likewise, this is an OP-ed piece and not a news source. The author is commenting on destabilization that is taking place. This is not a legitimate use of news sources in the present conversation.

    The other three links are from the Near Eastern Outlook which is not a legitimate news source for independent, international journalism. Here are the three links:

    http://journal-neo.org/2014/07/12/toward-a-europe-whole-and-free-to-loot/

    http://journal-neo.org/2014/04/14/ukraine-the-anti-maidan-begins/

    http://journal-neo.org/2014/07/15/nato-hopes-for-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/

    The irony here is that these posts are ALL BY THE SAME AUTHOR and in a news source that isn't legitimate.

    So, let's apply your own critique of me to your post.

    It fails miserably.

    So I've looked and responded. Either you can't read the byline of these reports and don't realize the same author is just posting this junk across two different sites, or you've made a misstatement here and am trying to drag my name through the mud. Which one is it?

    What are you talking about here, I am not familiar with this conversation.
     
    #56 preachinjesus, Aug 11, 2014
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  17. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    CMG has accused me of supporting people and things I do not support on several occasions over the years. That's how he get's around having to admit his neocon heros are responsible for the death and displacement of millions of people during their failed regime change attempts.

    That's called bearing false witness. I don't care if you like it or not. God said it ain't right and I agree. At what point did God tell us we should think and act like the world does?
     
    #57 poncho, Aug 11, 2014
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  18. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Well, you are standing alone right now in your support of Russia and KGB Lt. Col. Putin, aren't you?
     
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    My buddy calls this the curse of knowledge. I assume you guys have read all my posts and the thousands of articles, documents, videos and whatever else I've posted in the ten years I've been here.

    I also assume that you guys have started to catch on to how the government has lied to us about the need to go and attack this that and the other guy over the last 100 years.

    Apparently I'm wrong. I can look at an article in the land destroyer and connect it with all the declassified government documents, news articles and other forms of evidence from what you call "legitimate" sources that tend to back up what he's saying.

    And there is a lot of evidence to back it up. Unfortunately the average American can't remember what they had for breakfast let alone remember how they were neoconned into giving up on the conservative limit government movement that was replaced with the need for "endless war" theory.

    Do you even remember what it used to mean to be a conservative or has this neoconservative ideology of all war all the time everywhere because everyone else but us is evil and needs to be killed wiped it from your memory?

    Conservatives used to be about finding other ways of dealing with other nations besides blowing them up and killing millions of people.
     
  20. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    1. There's no links to "declassified documents" on the site you provided.

    2. You haven't made a prima facie case to prove your OP.

    3. Nobody is going to keep up with everyone's posts, worthwhile or not, this is a casual internet forum not a courtroom.

    4. Furthermore, its insulting to all us to say we can't remember beyond breakfast when in fact a lot of people on this board have rather high IQs. You're attempting to dodge the uncomfortable truths that you can't prove your claims.

    5. You still haven't answered my questions and refutation.
     
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