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The Nature of Man

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JSM17, Mar 13, 2009.

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  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    #61 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 16, 2009
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Satan does not tempt us as he did Eve?
     
    #62 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
  3. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Okay, but that seems to contadict what you said in Post #27:

    .
     
    #63 Marcia, Mar 16, 2009
  4. JSM17

    JSM17 New Member

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    Steaver wrote:
    Gen 3:1-6
    Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?"

    2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;

    3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'"

    4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.

    5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

    6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.NKJV

    Eve was tempted just the same way Jesus was tempted and just the same way that John says we are tempted as well as James:
    Matt 4:1-11
    Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

    2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry.

    3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."

    4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
    5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple,

    6 and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: 'He shall give His angels charge over you,' and, 'In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.'"
    7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'"
    8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

    9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."

    10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"
    11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
    NKJV

    1 John 2:16

    16 For all that is in the world -- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life -- is not of the Father but is of the world.
    NKJV

    Both Eve and Jesus were tempted my Satan by these things spoken by John. We are tempted in the same way. James explains how sin develops and it is not something that was there already but a process:
    James 1:13-16

    13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

    14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.

    15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

    16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
    NKJV

    In the context James is talking to Brethren, yet sin is developed in this manner for both the saved and unsaved. If we are born with sin then there is no process, it is just there.
     
    #64 JSM17, Mar 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2009
  5. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Explain why babies die without ever receiving any knowledge of good and evil, without the "process"?

    :jesus:
     
    #65 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Sorry. :) I guess I didn't word it right.

    Also, I'm referring to the spiritual death. The physical death comes on all because of Adam.
     
    #66 Amy.G, Mar 16, 2009
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I am wondering why you seperate the two deaths. What scripture tells you that they are seperate?

    :jesus:
     
    #67 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Because all die, even infants who have not sinned. But we are only held accountable to God for our own sins. I am not punished for the sins of my father. Spiritual death is a result of my own sin. When Adam sinned, he died. Yet he lived physically for many more years. His spiritual death (separation from God) was immediate. He died physically because he was denied access to the tree of life.
     
    #68 Amy.G, Mar 16, 2009
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Read Romans 5,

    I believe it is pretty clear that through Adam's offence "condemnation" came to ALL. Now condemnation is not merely physical death. Condemnation is speaking expressly of a life without God in everlasting seperation.

    (vs 18) Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation;

    :jesus:
     
    #69 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
  10. JSM17

    JSM17 New Member

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    Steaver wrote:
    Physical death is a result of man not able to partake of the tree of life after the sin of Adam and Eve, but Spiritual death is a result of our transgression of God.

    Since the guilt of the sins that were committed by Adam cannot be placed upon his son and so on and son then they babies today to not have that guilt as well. Of course there were no babies that we know of in the garden.
     
    #70 JSM17, Mar 16, 2009
  11. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: I am not certain what you are asking. No, I have not had any speaking snakes come to me. I have uttered the word “get thee behind me satan” on more than one occasion.

    Satan did not force or coerce Eve into her disobedience. He served as a powerful influence, but Eve still yielded to his suggestions willingly without force or coercion, did she not?
     
    #71 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 16, 2009
  12. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    No deceiver, no sin.

    :jesus:
     
    #72 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You will have to square this pov with Romans 5.

    (vs 18) Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation;

    Harmonize this with your pov and we can move on. :jesus:
     
    #73 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I believe the bible makes it clear that God does not hold the sins of the father against the son. All have been condemned physically because all have no access to the tree of life. When we are born again it is only spiritually, not physically. The two are separate. When we shed this earthly body and go to be with the Lord, we will again partake of the tree of life, which is Jesus, and so live eternally with a new body and a new spirit (which we already have now).
     
    #74 Amy.G, Mar 16, 2009
  15. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Says who? Scripture tells us that when we sin we are drawn away by our own lusts and enticed. I suppose that there is an element of deception in all sin, but why must their be a deceiver other than our own lusts?
     
    #75 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 16, 2009
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Can you square this pov with Romans 5?

    (vs 18) Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation;
     
    #76 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
  17. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Says God (Genesis). You will have to ask Him why when you see Him.
     
    #77 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
  18. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Where in Genesis?
     
    #78 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 16, 2009
  19. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: What? Who said we have a new body now? I certainly do not. I am in the same old flesh I was in before I got saved. I expect to be in it until I die.
     
    #79 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 16, 2009
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    3:1

    2Cr 11:3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    :jesus:
     
    #80 steaver, Mar 16, 2009
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