The New Birth

John continued to Baptize even AFTER that event.

Christ was pointing out to Nicodemus "before the Cross" that Nicodemus HIMSELF should already KNOW about the new birth "Are you a teacher in Israel and yet you do not know these things"?

Christ was not "voiding" the work of John. Nor did Christ argue that the baptism of John was pointless. In fact Christ's OWN disciples were ONLY baptized by John. They were Baptized by No one else.

Why Christ asked the question "Of whom was John's baptism" the reason for the question was to force the confession that it was authorized, approved - given of God.

Souls lived and died - having only been baptized by John even AFTER the Baptism of Christ.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Nicodemus did not ask anything about Baptism and Christ did not refer to John. And in fact the practice of Baptism in the Jewish culture preceeded John.

So "baptism did not start" after Christ spoke to Nicodemus. Christ was arguing that Nicodemus should have known the principle of being "Born again" as a Jewish teacher of scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

 

"Except a man be born of water and the spirit, He can not see the kingdom of God."

The Lord Jesus Christ is not speaking here of water as baptism. If we are going to compare these in other passages. We would come to the conclusion that this "water" is the word of God.

Please consider the following passages:


Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of WATER by the word,

1 Pet.1:23
Being born again , not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, the word of God the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jas. 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

 

Eph 5:26 plainly says, washing of water by the word, you can not find any baptism here. Please be careful not to sin in adding to the word of God. Please don't ignore also the verse which plainly explain that we are born again by the word of God 1Pet 1:23.

And also please don't ignore this verse:

Jn. 15:3
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

I'm so sorry that you don't know and even understand the scriptures.

Apostle Peter is referring to the gospel, when he said " He hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." This means when you believe the gospel about his resurrection you are born again, you are saved.


1Cor. 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1Cor. 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel gospel which i preached unto you,, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 15:2 By which you are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures

Eph. 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation : in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

This is not a cheap trick of redefining "water" as word but the correct and scriptural method since the Word of God palinly says so as i've shown it before.

The word of God, the gospel has the power to beget us because they are spirit and they are life. The literal water has no life and hence don't have power to make us children of God.

Please remember not to violate:

Deut. 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

And also of:

2Pet 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

Unless you are born into this natural life, then born into the spiritual life, you cannot see the kingdom of heaven.

You must be alive in this natural life in order to be born into the spiritual life. The spirit is the life of the flesh!

Born of water occurs when the placenta breaks and the water issues forth, followed by the birth of the baby.

Born of the spirit which is "spiritually not yet alive" until reborn. Is when the spirit is quickened by the individual's belief in God, Jesus.

 

John 3 The conversation with Nicodemus

There was one of the Pharisees called Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews, who came to Jesus by night and said, "Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher; for no one could perform the signs that you do unless God were with him."

Jesus answered: In all truth I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.

Nicodemus said, "How can anyone who is already old be born? Is it possible to go back into the womb again and be born?"

Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born through water and the Spirit; what is born of human nature is human; what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be surprised when I say: you must be born from above.

The wind blows where it pleases; you can hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

`How is that possible?" asked Nicodemus. Jesus replied, "You are the Teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things! `In all truth I tell you, we speak only about what we know and witness only to what we have seen and yet you people reject our evidence. If you do not believe me when I speak to you about earthly things, how will you believe me when I speak to you about heavenly things?

No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of man; as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert,
so must the Son of man be lifted up so that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. For this is how God loved the world:
he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. For God sent his Son into the world
not to judge the world, but so that through him the world might be saved. No one who believes in him will be judged; but whoever does not believe is judged already, because that person does not believe in the Name of God's only Son. And the judgement is this: though the light has come into the world people have preferred darkness to the light because their deeds were evil. And indeed, everybody who does wrong
hates the light and avoids it, to prevent his actions from being shown up; but whoever does the truth comes out into the light, so that what he is doing may plainly appear as done in God."

[ May 13, 2003, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]

 

Sola Scriptura,

God have mercy upon you for being confused and not rightly dividing the word of truth. You quote from 1 Pet. 3:21 just only the phrase ignoring the whole context.

Let me quote the whole verse for you:
1Pet.3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ( not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The verse plainly says it's like a figure of baptism and its not the literal water that saves since it says " not the putting away of the filth of the flesh . And it is very clear that Noah and his family was never got wet for they were all inside the ark when the flood came.

It also supports the other verses which i presented before that it is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ not baptism we were begotten of God. It means you must only trust the saving power of the gospel. For it is also clear from the Scripture that ... that the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1Jn. 1:7

Your interpretation that baptism cleanses our sins and that it has the power to give us new birth will certainly contradict the whole Bible. It undermine the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Be careful not to be under the curse of God:

Galatians
1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


And if you insist that noah

 

As Peter said "Baptism now saves you - NOT the touch of magic water to the skin - but the APPEAL TO GOD for a clean conscience". It is not sprinkling infants - but it is the informed MIND APPEALing to God for a clean conscience - actively - explicitly - in response to the command of scripture.

But "WHEN" are you saved? "With the MOUTH one confesses resulting in Salvation" Romans 10.

Long BEFORE the act of obedience in Baptism - one is "born again" by the Holy Spirit who "Convicts the World of Sin and righteousness and jugment".

Without being born again - you would never come to the point of obedience in Baptism.

Acts 10 presents the model whereby the word is preached - the Holy Spirit acts (and even spiritual gifts were bestowed) and THEN we see - Baptism following.

In Christ,

Bob