The New Birth

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Jn. 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    We argue about HOW one is born again. Some believe in connection with baptism and others believe before faith and yet others at faith and some after faith. However, leaving all that to another thread. This thread deals with why new birth is a "must" or necessity and what exactly about man is born again.

    I believe the necessity of new birth is due to a "heart" problem in all fallen human beings. God looketh upon the heart because it is out of the heart all the issues of our our life originate.

    1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

    Pr 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.


    The motive for all that we think, say and do has its source with our heart. As a man thinketh in his heart so is he, Solomon says.

    Mt. 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
    19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies
    :


    Salvation under the New covenant is described as God giving a new heart - Ezek. 36:26 or writing his Law upon the heart - 2 Cor. 3:3-6.

    IF this is true. Why do you suppose a man "must" be born again?
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    The point of the passage is that the person doesn't have any more control over his 2nd birth than he did over his first birth. It is all up to the Holy Spirit.
     
  3. reformed_baptist

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    Because the old heart will always choose to reject God and his will.
     
  4. kyredneck

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    :thumbs:

    6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
    8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3 YLT
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    Ding Ding, we have a winner!
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    Everyone Christ died for and rose again, they shall be begotten again [by the Spirit] unto a Lively Hope by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The word begotten again is the greek word anagennaō and means:


    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    The word is used here also 1 Pet 1:23

    Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Everyone Christ died for shall be communicated to them by the Spirit Spiritual Life, by New Birth !
     
  7. kyredneck

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    The phrase from the gospel of John is BORN FROM ABOVE. It is defined in 3:5,6 & 8 as born of the Spirit. It is synonymous with Gal 4:26 & Ps 87. It is made clear that we are totally passive in this birth from above in Jn 1:13.
     
    #7 kyredneck, Jul 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2012
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Jesus did not say "Verily, verily I say unto you except the elect be born again....." But "except A MAN.."

    Again, why is it a necessity that "a man" be born again?
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    kyr

    Its the same thing. 1 Pet 1 :23 states being born again by the Word of God, the Word of God here is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Logos of God, He is that incorruptible Seed. Now where is He at ? Col 3:1-2

    If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

    2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

    3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

    Notice, where Christ, the Logos, the incorruptible Seed sitteth on the right hand of God !

    That word above is the greek word anō and means:


    up, upwards, above, on high

    2) of the quarters of the heaven, northward

    3) of countries, inland, up from the coast

    4) of time, formerly


    And so they are born out of that incorruptible Seed from above !

    In Adam they are born out of a corruptible seed, but in the Last Adam, they are born out of an incorruptible Seed !

    And that is what Jesus means in Jn 3, one must be born again or from above, the effects of His Redeeming Work !

    Of course, No one can be active in being born ! Thats a work of God's Purpose Ecc 3:1-2

    To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    He did not have to say that. However the Elect are the only ones that shall be born again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:1-3

    Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    This thread is specifically designed to deal with the issue of the NECESSITY of the new birth in regard to man as stated in John 3:7. The question is why MUST a man be born again.

    Your perverted mind wants to make every single thread and every single post about your perverted view of eternal justification because nobody will respond to your threads as we are sick and tired of dealing with your one track mind. Either stick to the thread or leave us alone as you are trying to derail this thread just as you have tried to derail previous threads. If you can't stick to the subject of the thread we don't want your input.
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    This thread is for anyone who wants to address it !
     
    #12 savedbymercy, Jul 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2012
  13. The Biblicist

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    No it is not! It is explicitly against the rules to derail a thread from its stated topic and YOU KNOW IT!
     
  14. savedbymercy

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    The New Birth is a Promise to all the Seed, for its a Covenant Blessing Ezk 36:25-27

    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    This is the Promise of the New Birth to the Seed ! Anyone belonging to that Seed, because Jesus promised to save His People from their Sins, must partake of this Covenant Promise of the New Birth !

    In vs 25, That is basically the fulfillment of Jesus saving His People from their sins, their filthiness and idols !

    This is the only way one can be saved, through this Covenantal Blessing of the New Birth, promised to a Seed !

    God will pour out His Spirit on a Seed ! Isa 44:3

    For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

    Being a Teacher of the scriptures, Nicodemus should have known of this Promise Jesus said Jn 3:10

    10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    This thread is not about WHO are to be born again. The subject is about WHY is new birth a NECESSITY. Stick to the OP or go elsewhere! I will report you next time.
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    Its necessary for several reasons, one of which I just gave in that last ppost of mine !
     
  17. billwald

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    >IF this is true. Why do you suppose a man "must" be born again?

    Jesus spoke a koan.
     
  18. percho

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    IMHO because,

    From the creation of Adam man was going to have to be born again. from above. The creation of the first man Adam was not complete. Why was the Lamb slain before the first man Adam was created?

    1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. Hebrews 2:5 does that verse imply that either this present world (the inhabited earth) or prior world (the inhabited earth) is/was subject to angels? This is the world the first man Adam was created into and it is contrasted to the world to come (I say the kingdom of God). Then the question is asked and answer given, "What is man?" Made a little lower than the angels. But this ends with the statement, "But now we see not yet all things put under him." All things were not put under the first man Adam for he was not fit to have all things put under him. What man do we see fit to be made heir of all things and will we be born again like that man?

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Will we then be flesh and blood, corruptible or will we then be quickened spirit beings, incorruptible, having put on immortality.
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    One of the reasons why Man must be born again, is because Christ shall save His People from their sins. The elect are saved from the power of sin through their New Birth, they are now given a Nature that Pleases God. Peter says 2 Pet 1:3

    3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

    Thats New Birth, it provides all things we need to Live unto godliness. Remember to be begotten again means:

    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    Thats godliness !
     
  20. percho

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    Can flesh enter the kingdom of God?

    Can flesh inherit the kingdom of God?
     

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