The New Calvinism

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    Very interesting article in Time:

    http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/printout/0,29239,1884779_1884782_1884760,00.html


     
  2. Tom Butler

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    Actually, not bad for an obvious non-Calvinist. His description of Calvinism and predestination are close but not quite; but shoot, most other non-Cals don't get it right,either.

    Even the Cals can't always agree with each other.
     
  3. TCGreek

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    I just commented on a virtual friends blog on this very thing.

    Until they both see the doctrines of grace differently, I don't see the point.
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    I, for one, am thankful for the Baptists to return to their roots of strong calvinistic teaching. The op was written by one who at least caught the fact of this resurgence, even if missing some of the issues.

    500th BD of Calvin? Thinking of burning a pelagian in effigy . . .:tonofbricks:
     
  5. EdSutton

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    Didn't some already get burned during Calvin's day











    without the effigy thingie?? :tear:

    Ed
     
  6. preachinjesus

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    I have some good friends who are in the "New Calvinist" area. They've got some great ministries going too.

    There is a pretty big push amongst younger evangelicals towards this movement. This is because many of their primary communicators have roots in the Passion movement and conferences.

    BTW, I can't wait to celebrate Calvin's 500 Birthday! :D
     
  7. Amy.G

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    That isn't funny, especially considering you're an administrator.
     
  8. Dale-c

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    I think it is a joke Amy.

    One of the most common "arguments" (it is rhetoric, not a true argument) against calvinism is the burning of Michael Servetus.
     
  9. JustChristian

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    I would take that more as an issue with John Calvin himself not his theology.
     
  10. Allan

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    My comment here is not about the OP but your comment Dale:

    Are you saying that Servetus was not burned for heresy?

    ...And - that the ruling body who determined the judgment of burning him to death was not specifically the Reformed/Calvinists?


    It isn't rhetoric but fact. Now whether or not John Calvin was specifically involved in burning is another matter altogether.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    That's an odd opinion. You didn't notice subtle words like EFFIGY and the smilie?

    If I could kill all the pelagian heretics, I wouldn't. I would pray God's grace reaches their hearts. I was a reprobate and hell-bound sinner, too.

    If God's grace can reach me, it can reach anyone!
     
  12. Dale-c

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    But more than Calvin himself was the times he was living in.
     
  13. Dale-c

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    Servetus was certainly burned for heresy.
    The point is that does not makes the doctrines of Grace untrue.
    The RC church burned many people for heresy as well and they are semi-pelagian.
    At anyrate, anyone holding any system of theology is a fallen, depraved sinner saved by Grace.
    If the sins of one who holds a doctrine make the doctrine false, then all doctrines are false since all have sinned.


    Also, just so you know, Servetus was actually burned by the civil state, though they did not exactly enjoy the church state separation that we do today here.
     
  14. Jerome

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    "Brethren come out every now and then in the religious world so splendidly with some new fad and fancy of theirs, some grand discovery that they have made, some wonderful point of doctrine, some marvellous soul-stirring discovery, as it seems to be to them; and all the world is to stand still, and all the churches to be broken up, and I don't know what, until they have exhibited this precious thing, which when you have carefully looked at it, turns out to be very like the mouse which was the famous product of the labour of the mountain. It comes to nothing more. There is very much rubbish about, brethren; and, therefore, for the present distress, if every Christian minister were to keep to preaching Christ and him crucified, and nothing else, I think he would do well; and if every Christian man were to just keep to the plain truths of Scripture, and have them worked into his own soul by the Holy Spirit, and then speak them out with power, and live for soul-winning, and care for nothing else, he would do well." ---Charles Spurgeon
     
  15. JustChristian

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    I think we're saying the same thing basically. Burning Servetus reflected on Calvin the man not Calvinism. However, I don't care what the prevailing political winds might be I don't believe God wants us to put to death those who have a different theological viewpoint especially if it's Christian.
     
  16. Dale-c

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    I agree 100%
     
  17. Dr. Bob

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    The very reality of the 1500-1600's was for government to act upon moral codes of the Bible. The Judeo-Christian ethic, if you will.

    And when someone attacked salvation by grace it was considered a false worship of man (which it, of course, is) and satanic in origin.

    Rebellion against a sovereign God is like the sin of witchcraft (Samuel reminded Saul) and that one cannot allow a witch/rebel to live. The Canaanite religion was so anti-God and man-centered that God commanded the Jews to kill all the Amorites and their ilk - men, women and children.

    Taken to its logical conclusion, the Christian government (not Calvin) was simply implementing the Judeo-Christian ethic to those who were deemed a real "danger" to a regenerate society.

    Islam, when it becomes a majority, does the same as the Jews (dominant in 1400 BCE) or Rome or the Christians of Calvin's era.

    Interesting to see their mindset and know it has not really vanished, just become more "genteel" today.
     
  18. sag38

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    And when someone attacked salvation by grace it was considered a false worship of man (which it, of course, is) and satanic in origin.

    Is that how you feel about brothers and sisters in Christ today who don't fully hold to the doctrines of grace?
     
  19. Bob Alkire

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    If I recall correctly from my days when I was in seminary ( a Presbyterian seminary which taught calvinism) Calvin ( at this point in time I forget if it was Calvin or the folks who held his view) wanted Servetus put to death on secular charges but the court put him to death on religious charges.
     
    #19 Bob Alkire, Mar 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2009
  20. ajg1959

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    I am confused. Can God's grace reach "anyone", or just the elect?

    AJ
     

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