The New Testament and Genesis 1-11

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jun 14, 2005.

  1. OldRegular

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    The atheist tells us that there is no God, that everything that exists is the result of time and chance. Scripture tells us in Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. We can rightly conclude then that an atheist is a fool. But what of those who claim to be Christians yet ardently defend the evolution of man, denying the very God who gives eternal life?

    Generally they begin by saying that the Bible does not tell us how God created, but that is false. Scripture tells us that God spoke and it was so. Hebrews 11:3 tells us Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. It is not likely that God would create the universe by His word and then leave the epitome of His creation, made in His own image, to chance.

    Next they will tell us that the first 11 chapters of Genesis are not to be interpreted literally but that they are a mythological story simply showing us something about God, what, I don’t know.

    What does the Scripture of the New Testament tell us about Divine Creation?

    Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    If we look at the words of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and of the New Testament writers we see that they understood Genesis 1-11 as a historical account of the pre flood period. Please note that though I refer to the particular human author of a given book I believe in the plenary verbal inspiration of the Bible, that God Himself is the author.

    Jesus Christ quotes Genesis 2:24 in Matthew 19:5. Are we to believe that Jesus Christ, who we say died that we might be saved, used a mythological story to describe the sanctity of marriage? It is obvious that Jesus Christ believed in a real Adam and real Eve as He says:

    Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

    Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ obviously thought Noah was a real man or He misled us all for He said in Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man.

    Luke the physician obviously believed that Adam was a real man since he writes in Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

    The Apostle Paul obviously thought Adam was a real man and that Eve was a real woman, that the story of the creation and fall of man were literal since he writes:

    Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

    The author of Hebrews certainly believed that the flood of Genesis 7ff was real and world wide since he writes in Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

    Peter also believed that the flood of Genesis 7ff was real since he states in 2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

    The Apostle Peter certainly did not believe that Genesis 1-11 was mythological when he said in 1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    It is obvious that the writers of the New Testament believed the Scripture of Genesis 1-11, but then they are the words of God Himself.
     
  2. Gold Dragon

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    Which atheists have tried to tell you how to interpret the bible? Why would an atheist be interested in interpretions of the bible?
     
  3. OldRegular

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    Where did I say that atheists have tried to tell me how to interpret the Bible? I suggest you read the post again.

    [ June 14, 2005, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: OldRegular ]
     
  4. Charles Meadows

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    Psalm 14 doesn't seem to have much to do with your argument.

    No one on this board would say, "There is no God."

    Are you saying that any believer who ascribes to a nonliteral Genesis 1-11 is a fool?

    What did Jesus say about the one who calls his brother a fool?
     
  5. OldRegular

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    You apparently can't read any better than Gold Dragon.

    I wrote: Scripture tells us in Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. We can rightly conclude then that an atheist is a fool.

    A lot of people on this Forum have been deluded into believing evolution. You can call them whatever suits you.

    There is a passage of Scripture that seems appropriate:

    2 Timothy 3:1-7
    1. This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    6. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
     
  6. rbs

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    If the first 11 chapters of Genesis are not true, then the Gospel has no meaning, no purpose, no foundation. These chapters are foundational to the rest of Scipture and essential to the Gospel.
     
  7. TexasSky

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    Understand, I believe God created the heaven and the earth. I don't believe for a minute in "careless chance creating order."

    That said: I do know that Christians who shrug and say, "Evolution doesn't rule out creation," are not denying the authority of God or the accuracy of Genesis. The bible often uses parables to express things, and sometimes the bible says "7" years to describe "7 generations". So people who believe in God and in evolution assume that Gensis is a synopsis of the end result rather than a description of the process.

    I just disagree with them.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    You are 100% correct.
     
  9. OldRegular

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    Sadly some Christians embrace evolution without realizing the implications which rbs noted above.
     
  10. Gold Dragon

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    The first 11 chapters of Genesis are 100% true. The gospel has meaning purpose and a foundation.
     
  11. Charles Meadows

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    Scripture tells us in Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. We can rightly conclude then that an atheist is a fool. But what of those who claim to be Christians yet ardently defend the evolution of man, denying the very God who gives eternal life?

    No Oldreg, I can read well.

    This is a thinly veiled attack on those who believe differently than you.

    You mention that the atheist is a fool (an observation with which everyone would agree). Then you say "but what about..." and proceed to refer to any Christian who believes evolution is possible as one who "claims to be a Christian" and one who denies that God gives eternal life.

    If you are not implying that these believers are fools then WHAT IS your point of mentioning Ps 14?

    If you want to start a thread about Genesis 1-11 you should do so without intentionally insulting other brothers on this thread. You know VERY WELL that no one here believes that Genesis is a lie or that God is not capable of creation. Some simply choose to believe that God can teach us things using science as well as the Bible.
     
  12. OldRegular

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    This thread is not a "thinly veiled attack on those who believe differently than" I do. Rather it is a plea to those who have been deluded into believing the atheistic philosophy of evolution; a plea that they reject that philosophy in light of what the New Testament has to say which verifies the historical truth of Genesis 1-11.


    The following thoughts by leading evolutionists on evolution and Christianity demonstrate my concern: [These quotes have been posted on other threads.]

    Nobel prize winning biologist Jacques Monod writes:

    “Natural selection is the blindest most cruel way of evolving new species. .... I am surprised that a Christian would defend the idea that this is the process which God more or less set up in order to have evolution.”

    Evolutionist A. J. Mattell is even more perceptive:

    “Those liberal and neo-orthodox Christians who regard the creation stories as myths or allegories are undermining the rest of Scripture, for if there was no Adam there was no fall; and if there was no fall, there was no hell; and if there was no hell, there was no need of Jesus as Second Adam and Incarnate Savior, crucified and risen. As a result the whole biblical system of salvation collapses. .... Evolution thus becomes the most potent weapon for destroying the Christian faith.”
     
  13. Gold Dragon

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    Abusing science to make it say things about God, the Bible and things beyond the scope of science is just as bad as abusing the bible to make it say things about genetics, astronomy and other things that are clearly beyond the scope that its inspired authors intended.
     
  14. OldRegular

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    Actually Scripture does have something to say about genetics:

    Genesis 1:20-25
    20. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
    21. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    22. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
    23. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
    24. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.[/i]

    And about astronomy:

    Job 38:31-33
    31. Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
    32. Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
    33. Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
     
  15. Gold Dragon

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    Yes, some statements about genetics and astronomy can be inferred from the bible. It is still an abuse of biblical hermeneutics to read the bible as a genetics or astronomy text.
     
  16. OldRegular

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    You were abusing hermeneutics when you falsely stated that the Bible did not address genetics and astrinomy which it clearly does. I have not read of anyone who claims that the Bible is a textbook on genetics or astronomy.
     
  17. OldRegular

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    Isn't it strange that no evolutionist has addressed the Scripture included in the OP? But on reflection perhaps not.
     
  18. OldRegular

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    Still no rebuttal from the evolutionists!
     
  19. Gold Dragon

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    Your points in the OP were critical of atheists and I believe atheists cannot post in Baptist only forums here. That may be the reason for the lack of response to the points presented there.

    I addressed your points in an earlier post saying that Genesis 1-11 is 100% true.
     
  20. Deacon

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    A fool does not delight in understanding,
    But only in revealing his own mind.
    (Proverbs 18:2 NAS)

    He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself,
    And he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself.
    Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you,
    Reprove a wise man and he will love you.
    Give instruction to a wise man and he will be still wiser,
    Teach a righteous man and he will increase his learning.
    (Proverbs 9:7-9 NAS).

    When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man,
    The foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest.
    (Proverbs 29:9 NAS)
     

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