The occupancy of heaven

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by whetstone, Jul 2, 2005.

  1. whetstone

    whetstone
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    #1- Heaven is a definite size and will in turn have a definite amount of occupancy (Revelation 21:17)
    #2- God created heaven before man sinned.
    #3- Therefore God determined a definite occupancy of heaven before man sinned.


    Objection #1- God created heaven with enough occupancy for all people of all time and when damned sinners died and went to hell there was an 'empty space' in heaven where they would have lived.

    Answer: The people in hell become God's real estate agents in total control of what God can do with His own property.

    Objection #2- God foreknew who would get saved and built heaven accordingly.

    Answer: Man becomes the architect of heaven's size, not God.

    Objection #3: Heaven's creation date is not specifically given in scripture.

    Answer: While it is not expressly stated in scripture WHEN heaven was created- the HEAVENS were created in the beginning and it's very likely Heaven itself was created at the same time. Lucifer fell from heaven and that happened before the fall, so heaven must have existed before the fall.

    Conclusion: If God did not have a plan for the occupancy of heaven, he would not be the possessor of it.

    Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed [be] Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

    Daniel Allen
    aka Whetstone
    www.spurgeon.us
     
  2. OCC

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    Why do so many Calvinists spend so much time arguing about the so many people that are destined to go to hell because God hates all those people so very very much?

    *sigh* Is that our mandate from Christ???
     
  3. whetstone

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    'Arguing' requires two people. I'm the first poster. [​IMG] This is just an observation based on Revelation 21:17. Do what you want with it.
     
  4. OCC

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    First poster here. But arguing nonetheless. If you didn't want to argue you wouldn't have posted the same old nonsense.

    By the way...all I did was make an observation...and ask a question which went...hmmm...unanswered. :eek:
     
  5. whetstone

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    Your questions seem rhetorical. Do you demand an answer? Also- could you explain which part of my post presents an unloving God?
     
  6. OCC

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    CALVINISM presents an unloving God.

    Nope...I wanted an answer. Is what Calvinists spend a large amount of time doing (arguing with other Christians) Jesus' mandate to us? Yes or no?

    I don't demand an answer...I am leaving it to your own free will. [​IMG] I just thought since you are so knowledgeable you'd give me an answer. Seein as you have so much to say any other time.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Heaven is where God's Throne is and where the Angels were created. It is the home of the New Jerusalem (Heb 12) and the temple of God (Rev 15, Heb 8).

    Heaven existed before the fall - and it is "likely" that since this is where God's throne is - He created IT FIRST as a reference point for all intelligent life that HE CREATED after that point. IN Heb 1 we are told that through God the Son HE "Created the WORLDS".

    But in Rev 21 we see that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and is here on the New Earth. So maybe what you should be asking is "How big is earth"?

    In Rev 20 we see that after the 1000 years we have all the wicked who have ever lived raised in the 2nd resurrection. (So earth is "big enough" for that).

    In that chapter we also see the New Jerusalem with the saints of God surrounded by all the wicked - so apparently "earth" is big enough for all humans who have ever lived in all of time - plus whatever number of beings God has in the New Jerusalem - the City of God.

    IN Christ,

    Bob

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. BobRyan

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    duplicat
     
  9. whetstone

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    Good answer Bob! [​IMG]

    Question: Will all of the people who are ever saved get a mansion in heaven or not? Or will that occupancy have to spill onto earth? My logic still stands because of this all important factor.
     
  10. whetstone

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    Certainly not. However the question is loaded in that it claims Calvinists are the only ones spending time arguing. You are not a Calvinist and you spend your time in these forums arguing- which means you are hurting your stereotype.

    Does Calvinism present an unloving God? I don't believe so. No more than a man is unloving for chosing his bride over the millions of other girls on earth.
     
  11. whetstone

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    You'll have to forgive me for today. I'm headed off of BB until tomorrow or monday. Things to do! ;) Just so you know that I'm not ignoring you if you post and I don't answer right away. [​IMG]

    Dan
     
  12. BobRyan

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    All the saints who have ever lived will receive their place in the New Jerusalem in heaven. That New Jerusalem comes here after the 1000 years according to Rev 21.

    So in whatever form those accomodations exist -- they come here in that city of God.

    Christ said in John 14 that there are many dwelling places in His Father's house - presumably the New Jerusalem.

    So "occupancy does not SPILL to earth" rather we fully occupy IN heaven IN the New Jerusalem and then ALL of that city comes here -- we ALL are here after the 1000 years.

    The first resurrection of Rev 20 is the resurrection of the righteous. The Resurrection of the righteous is also described in 1Thess 4 where all the righteous who have ever lived are taken up to Heaven. We are in heaven for that entire time!

    As the end of the 1000 years the New Jerusalem with ALL the saints who have ever lived in all of time - comes here and on earth you will have the Lake of Fire, New Earth, City of God events as described in Rev 20 and 21.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. OCC

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    Dan...whether you answer me or not is not important to me.

    I don't "argue" per se. Every time I calm down from being subjected to "excused" personal attacks from "Calvinists" and come back to hope to have a rational discussion, I get provoked again. We as Arminians come here to discuss this stuff with you but we aren't going to call you hell bound heretics like I've been called.

    At times we get sick of the whole thing...but I don't see the same with Calvinists. They seem to enjoy fighting with CHRISTIANS and trying to "convert" them instead of fulfilling the Great Commission and going out to the lost. Unless...you feel WE are lost?
     
  14. whatever

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    Hey King,

    Calvinists get tired of that stuff too. I get tired of people (board admins even) telling me that they know what I believe better than I know what I believe, and that what I post about what I believe is baloney because it is not what they expect. There are some people here who like to discuss issues and ask and answer questions, and there are others who like to throw out the same old false accusations and never answer any questions. You kind of have to learn who you can count on to actually discuss an issue and then ignore the rest.

    By the way, in the OP whetstone said nothing about God hating anybody. So, how is your first response a "rational discussion" of the issue? See, it does happen to Calvinists too.
     
  15. OCC

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    Hey whatever...thanks for your post. I mentioned "arguing" because it seemed that is what he wanted to do. For the most part, Calvinists do want to argue. I go to a Calvinist church and the arguments pop up at every Bible study...even when the study has nothing to do with Calvinism.

    Whetstone, if that is not the case then I apologize.

    I would prefer to just discuss issues as well, without all the personal attacks. I tend to bring the personal attacks out when they are done to me first.
     
  16. whatever

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    You know what? I do see that in an awful lot of Calvinists too, and I think it is most unfortunate. But remember that not all of us are like that.

    I think most of my posts here are triggered when someone misrepresents what we believe. I am not looking to make a Calvinist out of anyone. No one but God could have done so with me, and I do not want to try to do so with anyone else.
     
  17. OCC

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    I hear ya Whatever. I try not to misrepresent Calvinism but I do try to take it to it's logical conclusion. I think I understand it...that's why it bothers me so much when some of them seem to be engaging in double speak.

    I believe Arminians get misrepresented too. It happens on both sides. Such is life eh?
     
  18. whatever

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    Yep. I guess it is part of why we groan while we wait for our redemption to be completed.
     
  19. OCC

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    Yep. I guess it is part of why we groan while we wait for our redemption to be completed. </font>[/QUOTE]Yep.
     
  20. johnp.

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    Hello Dan.
    Nice one.
    The whole counsel of God is required from us KJ. Acts 20:26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.
    Miss anything and we become responsible for the reprobate's blood. The watchmen must call a warning that is our job.
    We do not make it up do we? You can't make this stuff up man. We would choose a better story if we made it up. We do not appeal to man's ego but we attack man's ego and we are the only ones to do so. Total inability rules.
    It doesn't matter if you are or not it matters that we are true to the ones we meet and give them the truth.
    The commission was that we go into the world and preach the good news and that is being done here as well because this is part of the world. If you are saying that we should be trying to save souls, each has been tasked to do what they are doing. We are directed by God not by men.

    ad nauseam is a tool that is useful to us as army drills show. To do a thing over and over makes us proficient. This is a good place to train. That is what makes good soldiers.

    john.
     

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