"The Old Cross and the New"

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Jan 11, 2015.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    "From this new cross has sprung a new philosophy of the Christian life; and from that new philosophy has come a new evangelical technique -- a new type of meeting and new type of preaching. This new evangelism employs the same language as of the old, but its content is not the same and the emphasis not as before.

    "The new cross encourages a new and entirely different evangelistic approach. The evangelist does not demand abnegation of the old life before a new life can be received. He preaches not contrasts but similarities. He seeks to key into the public view the same thing the world does, only a higher level. Whatever the sin-mad world happens to be clamoring after at the moment is cleverly shown to be the very thing the gospel offers, only the religious product is better.

    "The new cross does not slay the sinner; it re-directs him. It gears him to a cleaner and jollier way of living, and saves his self-respect...The Christian message is slanted in the direction of the current vogue in order to make it acceptable to the public.

    "The philosophy back of this kind of thing may be sincere, but its sincerity does not save it from being false. It is false because it is blind. It misses completely the whole meaning of the cross. The old cross is a symbol of DEATH. It stands for the abrupt, violent end of a human being. The man in Roman times who took the cross and started down the road has already said goodbye to his friends. He was not coming back. He was not going out to have his life re-directed; he was going out to have it ended. The cross made no compromise; modified nothing; spared nothing. It slew all of the man completely, and for good. It did not try to keep on good terms with the victim. It struck cruel and hard, and when it had finished its work, the man was no more.

    "The race of Adam is under the death sentence. There is no commutation and no escape. God cannot approve any fruits of sin, however innocent they may appear, or beautiful to the eyes of men. God salvages the individual by liquidating him, and then raising him again to newness of life.

    "That evangelism which draws friendly parallels between the ways of God and the ways of men is false to the Bible and cruel to the souls of its hearers. The faith of Christ does not parallel the world; it intersects it. In coming to Christ we do not bring our old life to a higher plane; we leave it at the cross....

    "We, who preach the gospel, must not think of ourselves as public relations agents sent to establish good will between Christ and the world. We must not imagine ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to big business, the press, or the world of sports, or modern entertainment. We are not diplomats, but prophets; and our message is not a compromise, but an ultimatum."

    A. W. Tozer~The Biblical Evangelist, November 1, 1991, p. 11.
     
  2. The Biblicist

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    Tozer stated the difference very well when he opposed the rise of neo-evangelicalism in his day.

    Church growth techniques combined with easy believism is the cause behind the phenomenal growth of the Joel Osteen type of Charismatic Movement and the Billy Graham type of modern evangelicalism.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    We are ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20), calling people to be reconciled to God. As such, we are demonstrating and proclaiming that there is a new King and Kingdom that is taking control of this world one person at a time. One day, the King will return and set everything right and destroy any kingdom that opposes God's kingdom of love and righteousness.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Luk_12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
     
  5. The Biblicist

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    We should never mistake our calling to sinners to receive Christ as God's calling. Our calling never obtains the salvation of anyone. God's calling never fails to obtain salvation for the one being called (1 Cor. 1:26-30; Rom. 8:30) because when he calls it does not come in "word only" BUT it always comes "in power, and in the Holy Ghost and in much assurance" so that the person being called by God is supernaturally transformed into the same "manner" of God's people God used to speak through to call us (1 Thes. 1:4-5; 2 Cor. 3:3-6; 4:6). That is why there is a drastic change in those truly called of God.
     
    #5 The Biblicist, Jan 11, 2015
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  6. Iconoclast

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    He had much clarity when he wrote this .That trend has continued or even gotten worse since then.
    I am glad that the tide is turning somewhat now as many react to the lack of fruit those false ideas have produced
     
  7. JonC

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    “Conversion does not stand alone; it is the beginning of a lifelong journey of growing in Christ and being conformed to his image. Discipleship must follow on conversion as living and breathing follow on birth. There is no life without birth and there is no Christian faith without regeneration and conversion. In the Christian world today, however, what we have all too often is an aberration - spiritual birth that is not followed by an obvious spiritual life…Today we insist that we must have Christ as Lord as well as Savior, which is an extraordinary admission of failure on our part. The apostles did not distinguish between having Christ as Savior and having him as Lord. For them, to receive Christ as Savior was to receive him as Lord at the same time. He could be had as Savior in no other terms. We have stood the New Testament on its head. We are often selling an anemic gospel that asks for little beyond the sales clinch and are then grateful for any who might adhere to it. Little is expected of them by way of moving beyond the threshold of belief and into a full-orbed discipleship.” (David Wells, Turning to God, pg. 23).
     
  8. Van

    Van
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    Talk about a new Evangelism, it was posted that our actions as ambassadors of Christ as God's calling. The very verse (2 Cor. 5:20) says God is calling through us. No verse or passage is safe from the new Evangelism of Calvinism.
     
  9. The Biblicist

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    Just plain easy to read Scripture:

    1 Thes. 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
    5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.


    Verse 1 - tells them they can know their election of God. - "knowing.....your election of God"

    Verse 2 - tells them how they can know their election of God negatively and then positively.

    a. Negatively "our gospel came not unto you in word ONLY" - meaning it came with something "in....in....in" addition to just the word

    b. Positively "but ALSO in power" thus when it comes in "word ONLY" there it does not come in power.

    b. "in the Holy Ghost" thus when it comes in "word ONLY" it iswithout the Holy Ghost.

    c. "in much assurance" thus when it comes in "word ONLY" it is without assurance.

    d. "what manner of men" - It transform them producing the same "manner" of men that delivered it.

    In other words, when it comes in "word only" it does not come "in....in....in" what the next prepositional phrases describe.

    When the gospel comes "in power" it is the CREATIVE POWER OF GOD's COMMAND - 2 Cor. 4:6; James 1:18; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10 which is the effectual "call" out of darkness into light (Rom. 8:30; 1 cor. 1:26-30 of those whom God "hath chosen").

    When the gospel comes "in spirit" it is the regenerative work of the Spirit (Jn. 3:3; Tit. 3:5).

    When the gospel comes "in much assurance" it comes in the sealing work of the Spirit - Rom. 8:14,16.

    When the gospel comes "in power...in Spirit...in much assurance" it transforms them into a "new creature" making them into the same "manner" of men who delivered the gospel unto them.

    What you will do Van, is what you always do EXPLAIN AWAY what God's word explicitly states and/or means.
     
    #9 The Biblicist, Jan 11, 2015
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  10. Van

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    What a waste -

    1) Was our individual election for salvation denied? Nope
    2) Is 1 Thess. 1:5 germane? Nope
    3) Is the wild eisegeis on display based on explicit meaning? Nope
    4) Did any of the above address 2 Cor. 5:20 which explicited states God makes an appeal through us? Nope

    Talk about a new Evangelism, it was posted that our actions as ambassadors of Christ was not God's calling. The very verse (2 Cor. 5:20) says God is calling through us. No verse or passage is safe from the new Evangelism of Calvinism.
     
    #10 Van, Jan 11, 2015
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  11. Revmitchell

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    Please do not turn this into some anti-Calvinist thread. Good grief people get some self control
     
  12. Van

    Van
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    Why not state the obvious, 2 Cor 5:20 teaches God calls the lost through those acting as ambassadors. Why demean standing up for truth? We are ambassadors, and our message is not of futility, but of good news. Jesus died for you and you can be reconciled to God, rather than face the wrath of God.
     
    #12 Van, Jan 11, 2015
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  13. The Biblicist

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    This text blows your kind of interpretations and your kind of evangelism completely out of the water. It proves that the gospel does come in "word only" and so there is a general call versus an effectual call that comes not merely in word ONLY but ALSO comes in three specific ways that totally transforms the elect.

    My exposition and exegesis will stand and the proof that it will stand is that there is NO EXEGETICAL contextual based response that can overthrow it. Your only response is ridicule, insults that only put on open display your errors and ignorance. You just bloviate and that is all you can do as you have no other alternative but repent and that will take the grace of God.
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Jan 12, 2015
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  14. The Biblicist

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    Come on Arminians, prove my exposition is incorrect! Provide contextual based reasons Paul is not defining and distinguishing the general call of the Gospel where it comes in word only, from the effectual call of the gospel that comes in these three distinctive life transforming ways!!! Van simply advertises his ignorance. Surely someone can do better than that?

    The words "only" and "also" demonstrate there is more necessary for actual salvation than a mere general call of the gospel. The three prepositional phrases describe the EFFECTUAL call that verifies/confirms who are the true elect of God. The total transformation from what they were prior to this effectually described three-fold call unto what "manner" of men they become:

    as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
    6 ¶ And ye became followers of us,


    The threefold manner (in power...in the Holy Ghost...in much assurance) by which the gospel came to them transformed them into the same "manner of men" who shared the gospel with them. That is the effectual call of the gospel or when it comes NOT IN WORD ONLY but ALSO in this manner.
     
    #14 The Biblicist, Jan 12, 2015
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  15. Yeshua1

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    That is what calvinists do every Sunday from the pulpit, as they [reach jesus crucified and risen for sinners, and sinners who "hear" as the Spirit wenables them will receive jesus, just as Spurgeon did!
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Hey! You too. Stop derailing the thread. Behave yourself.
     
  17. blackbird

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    Thread is being closed at request of OP
     
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