The Origin of Modernity

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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    Article LINK

    I would be interested in any comments on the substance of this article.
     
  2. fromtheright

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    Ken,

    Am reading Himmelfarb's book now. It's excellent. I had read another of hers a while back, One Nation, Two Cultures and this new one inspired me to get another of hers, Looking into the Abyss, which looks to be pretty good. I'm almost half way through Modernity and she hasn't yet discussed the American Enlightenment, mostly distinguishing the British (including the Scottish) and French Enlightenments. We've often heard before that the American and French Revolutions were different, but the author I think goes deeper than the historical facts of either but into the ideas.
     
  3. KenH

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    Lots of good reading there, ftr. I was pointed toward this article because you mentioned the other article in The National Interest, "Religion and the West", by Peter L. Berger.

    I think Mr. Berger makes an interesting comparison toward the end of his article:

    "The current debate over the place of Islam in the Iraqi constitution provides a particularly clear example of alternate possibilities in the establishment of a modern democracy. One side conceives of the state as rigorously neutral in matters of religion, relegating the latter to private life(on the French model); the other recognizes the primacy of a particular religious traditon while eschewing coercion by the state and respecting the rights of minority communities(which appears to be the model in the minds of leading Shi'a, resembling the views of conservative Christians in America)."

    Thus, these discussions are not merely academic but have real world implications and are, therefore, important to understand.
     
  4. fromtheright

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    The book China in The National Interest, advertised on the website, looks intriguing. I just got a book in the other day from Amazon, China: The Gathering Menace by Constantine Menges. I haven't cracked it open yet, but look forward to reading it. The problem is that my recollection of Menges' writing style is that he wasn't a good writer. I hope I'm wrong or that he has improved.
     
  5. church mouse guy

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    C4K should comment on this article.

    I don't think that the USA is that much better off but then I live in a big city long dominated by a variety of cults such as Peoples Temple, which started here. Also, we are home to Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, a modalist cult, the black version of the United Pentecostal Church. One old denomination that makes their home in Indy is the Campbellite Disciples of Christ, now fully modernist with women preachers and gay preachers.

    I think England will return to Jesus. Modernism has no answers except more materialism.

    In the 19th century, the church abandoned apologetics, the handmaiden of evangelism. Even today, churches emphasize the evangelization of new members but do little to teach members how to defend the faith. We need more doctrine, more understanding of what we believe and, most importantly, why we believe it. We need to always be ready to explain to others the reasons for the Hope that we have. In the free marketplace of ideas, modernism cannot compete with the love for Jesus and the desire to be like Him, to be conformed to His Image.
     
  6. church mouse guy

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  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    After reading the article I definitely need to get the book. It sounds fascinating.

    I agree with much of CMG's contention, that America does not have some type of moral high ground on which to stand. Modernity may be trailing in America, but it is not far behind. Once the snowball of modernity starts rolling it soon becomes an avalanche with a mighty destructive power.

    From link above.

    In this the author errs. There is no "moral Ireland" any more than there is a "moral United States." I have personally witnessed the snowball of modernity become an avalanche in the ten years I have been here.

    I am not as optismistic as CMG about the future of the West. The modernity founded by the philosophes has great appeal to the flesh and to man's pride. There has been an absolute rejection of all things moral in the last ten years. I do not see a reversal based on man's desires, but only a supernatural working.

    Everyone seemingly wants to be the "modern man" and is glad to have thrown off the shackles of religion, morality, and tradionalism.

    I think the Scriptures indicate that modernity will have a great temporary victory which will onlt be reversed when Christ comes as King.
     
  8. fromtheright

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    CMG,

    I'm afraid I agree with C4K on the prognosis: the patterns of thought set in motion by modernity include moral relativism and postmodernism and a whole host of other pathological systems of thought, that are quite attractive to prideful man, who thinking himself wise becomes foolish--and destroys himself.
     
  9. church mouse guy

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    Christianity has the power of the Holy Spirit--

    2 Corinthians 10:3 (KJV) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

    4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
     
  10. fromtheright

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    CMG,

    Unfortunately we're a long way from this happening. Millions have died from the effects of "totalitarian poisoning" and other toxic effects of modernism. I think we're a long way from this being turned around.
     
  11. church mouse guy

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    FTR, we are going to change this! We have the answers and we are going to fight the good fight!
     
  12. billwald

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    The fusion of these theories and peoples in the USofA 1950-2000 produced the best conditions for the working class in the history of the world. It will probably not happen again for 100 years if then.
     
  13. church mouse guy

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    Are you saying that Christianity is against the prosperity of the common man? Christians are mostly common people! It's a false economy anyway--built on borrowed money and inflation and the micromanaging of the rich through the Federal Reserve Bank. The power to watch is the modernist, who have entrenched themselves in the educational system (now in collapse), the government (now in rebellion against the elected authorities) and the media (now in the hands of the modernists except for talk radio and the internet).

    However, we Christians are going to pull down this stronghold!
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Of course now we once again approach the realm of eschatology.

    My view is that "evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse as you see the day approaching" and that only the Second Coming of Christ will defeat the plague of modernity and post modernity.
     
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I just ordered the book from a company through Amazon.co.uk. Hopefully I will have it by the end of the week. Can give more insight then.
     
  16. LadyEagle

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    Isn't it amazing how that is what it comes down to on all these topics? Our Scriptural view does affect our world view in a lot of areas....


    And all other plagues of mankind. Amen.
     
  17. KenH

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    When discussing politics eschatology should not enter into since we don't know if the world will end in the next five minutes, five years, or five thousand years.
     
  18. church mouse guy

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    I hate to think what the Baptist Board will be like if the world lasts another 5000 years and Christians lose this fight against modernity although 5000 years from now they surely will have another word other than modern to describe themselves. Well, maybe not--there is nothing new under the sun.
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Actually - there is a transistion in place from modernity to post-modernity which gives states that everything is based totally on man's persepective of it.

    At least modernity admitted a reality.
     

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