The OTHER major mistake of Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Skandelon, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    In another thread Biblicist wrote:
    So, Biblicist denies that God decreed or designed for mankind to lose their ability to respond as a result of the fall. No doubt he does this because he denies 'double predestination' or 'Supralapsarianism.'

    In this view, Biblicist attempts to maintain that mankind is condemned because of their sin, not God choosing, but how does that work with the Calvinistic application of Jacob and Esau?

    Weren't they chosen for salvation and reprobation PRIOR to doing good or evil? How do you answer this?
     
  2. Inspector Javert

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup:
    Moreover....
    Given the Infralapsarian viewpoint espoused....
    "Sin" and it's "nature" is presented as though it's some fait-accompli of nature that God has no control over.

    That particular brand of Calvinism pretends that the curse of sin and the ensuing inability to do right is some "Law" that God had absolutely no influence over...

    Men fell from grace (not God's doing)
    Since men fell, they inherited a nature irreparably always disposed towards evil (again, God had nothing to do with it)

    They treat the curse for sin as some "fact of life" that God had nothing to do with.

    Infralapsarianism is un-supportable. Completely un-supportable.
     
  3. agedman

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    Recopied here to apply to this new thread.

     
  4. Skandelon

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    Right. How do they support their understanding of Sovereignty given these facts? Did God's sovereignty take a break when these determinations were made? Was God just not able or willing to be involved in the punishment/consequent phase of the fall?
     
  5. Jacob_Elliott

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    The infra vs supra debate is just dumb. When beginning one of these debates you should start out with "Assuming God thinks and acts in a linear progression, one thought or action leading to another, exactly like us finite mortals then......".
     
  6. agedman

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  7. agedman

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    My very first thought when reading this post was "I Am."

    God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are not constrained by time and distance.

    The end is as just as known as the beginning and just as present with God.

    That He chooses to constrict humans to a linear progression (or digression) is as He appoints. He can back up time as easily as He can skip over time.
     
  8. Jacob_Elliott

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    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
  9. BobRyan

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    Biblicist argues that it is God own choice NOT to enable the lost to do anything but rebel against His Word (to leave them in their fallen state) that results in their continued rejection of His own Gospel no matter the unlimited reach of the Gospel going into ALL the World and God's own WILL that "all men should come to repentance".

    Biblicist's view still makes God the cause of His own lament.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    Very simple! Because I am not a superlapsarian the decree of unconditional particular election follows the decree of universal fall and condemnation. Therefore, we are the "children of wrath even as others" in regard to the fall and condemnation. However, "but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes" while the rest are not objects of elective love. Since election is "unconditional" then it is not determined either by the fallen person of Jacob or Esau or their future works good or evil.
     
  11. Skandelon

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    Again, do you all carry around some kind of decoder ring to help explain all these complexities? :smilewinkgrin:
     
  12. The Biblicist

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    Nothing complex about what I said. Just read it more slowly and note the cause versus effect relationships in what I said.
     
  13. Skandelon

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    “When the man's argument becomes tedious, complicated, and opaque, it is usually a sign that he is attempting to prove as true to the intellect what is plainly false to common sense” -Ed Abbey
     
  14. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    No one is. The term is supralapsarian. Maybe a new decoder ring is in order? :laugh:
     
    #14 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jan 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2014
  15. BobRyan

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    Making God out to be the cause of His own lament.

    The Calvinist argument cannot stop itself from making that mistake.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     

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