Featured the Parthenon in NashVegas

Zenas · Mar 2, 2015

corndogggy said: ↑

It's literally a 42 foot idol of a goddess inside of a recreation of a temple dedicated to her, on government property. Christian weddings happen here, right underneath Athena herself.

The instructions on whether such things are acceptable seem to be pretty clear. Just surprised that literally nobody cares given this fact. Had we set up a golden statue of Baal at the courthouse, even if only for fun or historical education purposes, people would probably care. What's the difference?
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We used to go there on school trips when I was in elementary school. In those days Athena wasn't there. The main level of the building was mostly empty with a few ancient marble statues around the perimeter.

Athena was placed there about 25 five years ago and, I have to admit, it seemed a little creepy when I first saw it. Of course, it is art. It is neither an object of worship nor an accoutrement of worship and that is why no one complains about it. Anyway, businesses in Nashville make a lot of money off visitors to the Parthenon so it isn't about to come down.

corndogggy · Mar 4, 2015

Zenas said: ↑

I have to admit, it seemed a little creepy when I first saw it.
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It's incredibly creepy considering the size plus other detailed items like the goddess Nike, plus Medusa coming out of her chest. It goes well beyond an art painting.

Revmitchell · Mar 4, 2015

corndogggy said: ↑

It's strangely ironic if you think about it, an atheist raises Cain and gets an engraved stone of the ten commandments taken off of the courthouse lawn and people are up in arms, but nobody cares about the government maintaining the idol of the ancient god in the temple, which is in fact directly against one of the ten commandments.
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How is it ironic? Do you know what ironic means?

Zaac · Mar 4, 2015

corndogggy said: ↑

It's literally a 42 foot idol of a goddess inside of a recreation of a temple dedicated to her, on government property. Christian weddings happen here, right underneath Athena herself.

The instructions on whether such things are acceptable seem to be pretty clear. Just surprised that literally nobody cares given this fact. Had we set up a golden statue of Baal at the courthouse, even if only for fun or historical education purposes, people would probably care. What's the difference?
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If we are talking BIBLICAL instructions, then naturally it isn't acceptable. But it's a government property, not a church property.

How is this different from any of the rest of the Greek statues scattered throughout the country???

Rolfe · Mar 4, 2015

Zaac said: ↑

How is this different from any of the rest of the Greek statues scattered throughout the country???
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Yep.:thumbsup:

corndogggy · Mar 4, 2015

Zaac said: ↑

How is this different from any of the rest of the Greek statues scattered throughout the country???
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Maybe it's not but I'm not aware of any other 42 foot tall ones with its own temple.

corndogggy · Mar 4, 2015

Zaac said: ↑

If we are talking BIBLICAL instructions, then naturally it isn't acceptable. But it's a government property, not a church property.
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If you had said private property I'd agree. But, if people want to say we are a Christian nation and want the ten commandments posted at the courthouse then it shouldn't be acceptable period if there are biblical instructions on the subject, shouldn't matter whose property it's on whether church or government. If anything, the fact that it is on government property and not private property of a third party group should be more troubling to the Christian nation crowd but it isn't.

Rolfe · Mar 4, 2015

corndogggy said: ↑

Maybe it's not but I'm not aware of any other 42 foot tall ones with its own temple.
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What does the size of it have to do with anything? Is it proportional to the level of evil?

Baptist Believer · Mar 4, 2015

corndogggy said: ↑

But, if people want to say we are a Christian nation and want the ten commandments posted at the courthouse...[/'quote]
Historically, Baptists would disagree with both of those positions. Only in recent years have Baptists jumped on the "Christian nation" bandwagon - completely ignoring the Baptist witness of the last 500 years.

...then it shouldn't be acceptable period if there are biblical instructions on the subject, shouldn't matter whose property it's on whether church or government. If anything, the fact that it is on government property and not private property of a third party group should be more troubling to the Christian nation crowd but it isn't.
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I'm not too concerned about the "Christian nation" crowd. They have other, more important issues to sort out. They also might know more about both the original Parthenon and the replica than you might imagine.

In regard to whether or not the replica violates the Baptist doctrine and the Constitutional principle of separation of church and state, the most used test by the Supreme Court, and lower courts, is the three-pronged “Lemon test” that was formulated in the Supreme Court decision, Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971).

"First, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose…"
The purpose of the Parthenon replica was to showcase classic Greek architecture and as a curiosity for the Tennessee Centennial Exposition in 1897. Nashville was nicknamed, “The Athens of the South” and the City wanted to enhance that reputation with a recreation of the most famous architectural icon in Athens, even Greece.

The building was built without the statue of Athena (added in 1990) and the building came to be used as an art museum. While the building is authentic in scale - and now includes a recreation of the goddess Athena - the purpose is to be a historic homage. As a teenager, I visited the Parthenon in the late 1970s and was impressed with the scale of the building. It served as an education in ancient Western architecture, just as it was intended.

I think it is important to note that even the original Parthenon was not built as a place of worship. Only later did a cult of Athena develop. Originally, it was built as a symbol of civic pride by the people of Athens.

In my opinion, both the original and the current Parthenon pass this facet of the test.

"...second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion..."
Unless I have completely missed something, there is no cult of Athena worshipping at the Parthenon. There are no priestesses, no offerings, no sacred owls, no incense, no appeals to Athena, etc.

The cult of Athena (if it even exists in modern form in Tennessee), is not aided or restricted by the existence of the replica.

In my opinion, it easily passes the second facet of the test.

"...finally, the statute must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."
Since there is likely no cult of Athena operating in the US, there is no entanglement. The replica simply was not built for worship and there has been no entanglement.

In my opinion, it easily passes the third facet of the test.

In my opinion, according to the most widely-accepted legal test for church-state separation, the Parthenon replica is not a violation.
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Aaron · Mar 4, 2015

speaking of images, yours are way too big for the page. You really haven't learned to post images if you can't control the manner in which they're displayed.

Besides, the goddess is unattractive.

Baptist Believer · Mar 5, 2015

corndogggy said: ↑

It's strangely ironic if you think about it, an atheist raises Cain and gets an engraved stone of the ten commandments taken off of the courthouse lawn and people are up in arms, but nobody cares about the government maintaining the idol of the ancient god in the temple, which is in fact directly against one of the ten commandments.
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I don't know if you are referring to a specific case when you talk about "an atheist," but the general issue with the Ten Commandments is that:

The Ten Commandments are instructions to action/inaction from a extremely specific religious tradition. They were given to the children of Israel with the rest of the Law as part of an agreement with God to become a theocratic nation of priests (Exodus 19:6). The United States is not a theocracy, nor do we have a national calling from God to be a nation of priests to represent God to the other nations. The Kingdom of God (composed of those who are actively involved in discipleship to Christ) is completely different from the kingdoms of humankind.

The Parthenon replica is a building, built as an expression of civic pride, not for worship - just like the original Parthenon.

The Ten Commandments call people to worship the God of Israel alone.

The Parthenon replica is a building, built as an expression of civic pride, not for worship - just like the original Parthenon.

The Ten Commandments call people not to create idols (graven images), with the implication that they will be worshipped. Why else would ancient peoples in this era create graven images?

The Parthenon replica is a building, built as an expression of civic pride, not for worship - just like the original Parthenon.

The Ten Commandments demand that that people not use the name of God recklessly, carelessly, for gain or advantage, for prestige, or in any other improper way.

The Parthenon replica is a building, built as an expression of civic pride, not for worship - just like the original Parthenon.

The Ten Commandments call people to take a day of rest - once a week - to enjoy life, worship God, and appreciate the blessings of God's grace.

The Parthenon replica is a building, built as an expression of civic pride, not for worship - just like the original Parthenon.

Our government doesn't have any business teaching, promoting or enforcing the commandments I listed. They are for the children of Israel and anyone else who seeks to follow Israel's God. The government also have practical limits regarding enforcement of the rest of the commandments. And it should be emphasized again that the Commandments were not given to the United States government. That's why the Ten Commandments should not be displayed by the government.

And the Parthenon replica is still just a building, built as an expression of civic pride, not for worship - just like the original Parthenon.

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