The Passion of Mel Gibson

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by firedome, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. firedome

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  2. dianetavegia

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    Rodney, I saw the movie for the first time last night. I'm going again this Thursday night with my husband and next week with a girlfriend from church.

    This movie touched me greatly.

    Diane
     
  3. Psalm145 3

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    Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
     
  4. dianetavegia

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    If you equate this movie with the unfruitful works of darkness, then I hope you own no t.v., no radio and have no internet service. You would never pick up a magazine or newspaper either. There's no way you could work in the secular world.

    Diane
     
  5. firedome

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    Diane,
    You said that you viewed the movie and were touched by it. My question is, did you go to the links that I provided? I will tell you that the first link is a sermon of 1 hour and 6 minutes in length. It was taught by a Baptist preacher in New Jersey by the name of Albert N. Martin and is quite moving in its own right. Brother Martin takes the film and its attributes and weighs them against God's Holy Word. The second link is a paper done by a Presbyterian preacher from North Carolina by the name of Andrew J. Webb, it too is quite convincing for Brother Webb also uses as his standard the Holy Scriptures. Neither of these men use their emotions to be the guage of conscience. PLease take the time to listen to the lesson by Brother Martin and the read the point poaper by Brother Webb before you fall off of the deep end.

    Maranatha,
    Rodney
     
  6. dianetavegia

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    No Rodney, I only looked at the second page. I've seen the movie and have been a Christian (and a Southern Baptist) for 45 years. My church chose 10 people for this preview out of 1065 members. I went with two of our pastors, the chairman of the deacons and his wife, a pastor's wife and other church leaders. Not one of those other 9 people saw any reason not to recommend this movie to our members.

    This is a very silly remark.

    Diane
     
  7. Servent

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    Rev.3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot I will spew thee out of my mouth.
    Two pastors once told Mr. Moody that he should not get up and speak in front of people because he could not speak well, He told them yes I know I dont But what are you doing for christ.

    God used Moody to do a great work when no one else would, So what are you doing for Christ.
    Here I am LORD send me.
     
  8. er1001

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    I have not seen the film "the passion of the Christ" and probably won't.I have watched previews and read severals articles of people who have.When i was lost and without hope,i heard the gospel message that because of my sin Jesus had to come from heaven and suffer horrible punishment and die a terrible death to pay the price that i should have had to pay.
    By faith i accepted his gift and was saved.I don't think i could bare to watch what happened.I don't know what the purpose of the film is,unless they are trying to shame or scare people so they will be saved.That might work but just hearing about it from God's word was enough for me.
    The bible say that by the foolishness of preaching men are saved :confused:
     
  9. Kiffin

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    Actually it was not overwheming. The Lutheran wing of the Reformation as well as many in the Anglican wing did not reject such images as in violation of the Second Commandment.Visit a Lutheran Church you will find crucifixes or a Anglican Church will have Biblical scenes in their stain glass.

    There is no General prohibition against Images in the Law. God commanded images to be made such as the cherubum and the brazen serpent in the OT. What God prohibited was making of images or idols to worship. God did not violate His own law by calling for cherubuim and the Bronze Serpent to be made. The reaction against images was more a Protestant knee jerk reaction that in order to be consistent you would need to burn your family album, driver's license and endorse tearing down Mt. Rushmore, Iwo Jima Memorial. The Amish are the only Protestant group that I know that are consistent on this.

    Ash Wednesday is not just a Roman Catholic holy day. Using Andrew J. Webb logic, Christmas and Easter are Roman Catholic holidays! Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans many Methodists as well as some Baptists (such as mayself [​IMG] ) see Lent as the TRUE 40 Days of Purpose in which we reflect on Christ suffering, Passion and prepare our hearts for Easter Sunday.
     
  10. firedome

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    Mel Gibson states that the film will show that the Cross and the Altar (Mass) are interwoven. He also used extra-biblical material written by a deprived nun of a vision of the crucifixion that fills in the holes of the Gospel.

    I wonder how many people who have seen this film already were moved by the scene of the Savior falling in the street and his mother coming to him and saying, "I'm here", followed by "see Mother, I make all things new". What is being evoked here is pure emotion, but for who? I present to you that it evokes emotion for the mother just as much as it does for the son. This is exactly what the RCs want. It brings Mary up to the co-redemptrix status in peoples other than the RCs.

    I also present to you that many a person will be or already has been deceived in their views concerning this film. Many a person will say within themselves, "I can discern the difference between truth and error". But, how will their experience of the film translate to others? Will they be able to always govern their tongues, thoughts or actions concerning this film? I say with a resounding NO! The people that believe they cannot be deceived are already deceived. They stand just as the ones who are spoken of in Revelation 18:4-8. Psalm 145 3 correctly stated the historic stance of the true believer in relation to the RCC. Many of MY brethren died for this very thing! I cannot stand by and watch the freedoms that have been bought with the precious blood of my Savior and His saints to be cast down to the ground and be made of none effect by Laodidean attitudes.

    Maranatha,
    Rodney
     
  11. vaspers

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    I have never seen or heard any serious answers to the multitude of objections against the heretical, gratuitously violent film, nor how it's part Bible, part fantasy based on the self-mutilating stigmata mystic AC Emmerich, nor why anybody would want to focus on the savagery inflicted on my precious Saviour with no context of His beautiful life and glorious Resurrection, Ascension, and Giving of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost (no, I'm not a "charismatic," whatever that means).

    People just zoom right past that, and rave about Mel Gibson, Mr. Road to the Cross Warrior. They don't care about his bizarre church. If he was a Mormon, Jehovahs Witness, Muslim, or what have you, they still wouldn't care.

    They just dig the guy and will adore his "intentions"--to fund a cult, or his retirement, perhaps. I dunno. Biblical accuracy in a Jesus film? Those days are gone. Now it's special effects, action, great music, and a famous actor. The actor who plays Jesus is a star in a current movie, in which he has a lurid sex scene with an actress. Yeah. Great film, this "Passion." You have to be joking.

    Last night I was Inquisitioned by my "pastor" and others for simply QUESTIONIONG his leadership decision to heavily promote this film to the church. Not for poisoning the church against him or the film. Simply for raising some genuine concerns. Can you say "dictatorial"?
     
  12. Brother Adam

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    You have been offered serious answers, but have openly rejected them without thinking through them.

    I've thought through the objections raised against the Passion movie, but still believe it is a good movie to see. I listened to part of the hour long dialogue that was offered, and beleive he is twisting scripture.
     
  13. firedome

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    In what way and which verses did Brother Martin twist? It is funny that when someone unwinds a piece of twine we do not say that he is twisting it.

    Maranatha,
    Rodney
     
  14. dianetavegia

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    Firedom said: I wonder how many people who have seen this film already were moved by the scene of the Savior falling in the street and his mother coming to him and saying, "I'm here", followed by "see Mother, I make all things new". What is being evoked here is pure emotion, but for who(sic)? I present to you that it evokes emotion for the mother just as much as it does for the son.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    On the contrary! This scene showed the humaness of Mary and you, sir, are no mother or you'd know she'd be there, she'd reach out, she'd speak to her son. Of course there was pity for what this earthly mother endured! What mother hasn't hurt for her child even a skinned knee.

    Vaspars said: part fantasy based on the self-mutilating stigmata mystic
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    And where in this film was the self mutilating stigmata mystic? I failed to see it.

    May I ask you if you have read a medical doctor's description of what Christ would have endured?


    http://www.konnections.com/Kcundick/crucifix.html

    http://www.frugalsites.net/jesus/


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    As an aside; there is no nudity in this film. When Christ rises from the dead, His face is shown without wounds, He begins to move and his upper thighs are shown for less than 1 second as he begins to walk and then his hands with the clear mark of the nail wounds. End of story.

    I asked the other 9 people from my church what THEY saw in that scene and not one thought it was naked buttocks as someone said earlier this week.

    Diane
     
  15. vaspers

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    Mel said maso-mystic Emmerich inspired him and script.

    Have you read her bizarre fantasy text? Have you compared the sub-titles of this heretical film with the Gospels? It seems people are so excited, they can't calm down and do this!

    They do not coincide. This film is not "what really happened." Unless you think the Gospels are not as accurate as Emmerich and Mel's fantasies. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    BTW, thank you for sharing the troubling end of this film. I was very concerned about the alleged nudity of it. Although it still doesn't sound so great to show His thigh. Mel must have toned down his filmmaking weirdness a tiny bit.
     
  16. LadyEagle

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    Have you? Oh, that's right, you haven't seen the film.
     
  17. dianetavegia

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    Vaspers said: Although it still doesn't sound so great to show His thigh.

    A good portion of the film is of Jesus in his undergarment. Would you have 'Hollywood' change that fact? The thigs, back, arms, face, hands and feet of our Savior were bruised and bloodied for our transgressions. In the ressurection scene, only the nail prints remain.

    The subtitles are scripture, other than a few remarks between Jesus and his mother during flashbacks. Some or many flashbacks (disciples remember things, the woman caught in adultery remembers things) contain NO WORDS. The wording is not KJV tho which doesn't concern me in the least.

    I saw 1 thing incorrect. The nails are driven into the hands of Christ. The actual way this was done is the nails were driven into the wrist area. The weight of a body would pull loose the hands unless there was a bone to prevent it.

    Diane
     
  18. vaspers

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    This is starting to sound blasphemous. Jesus walks around in His undergarments in this film? Do the Gospels say that? Or do we no longer care what the Gospels say? I suppose we must trust Mel that "it is as it was"...this is starting to make me upset. It better not show Jesus in this manner. If it does, and you like it, I hardly know what to say.

    I have seen the film, parts of it, and those parts were wrong. I don't know if all of it is wrong, but those parts were dreadfully distorted, even the exact OPPOSITE of what the Gospels say (devil in Gethsemane, rather than an angel of God, etc.)

    I've seen The Making of The Passion and other excerpts, compared the subtitles with the Gospel accounts, they do not coincide.

    Do I have to see a whole entire porn movie to know it's bad? I've spoken to my "pastor" and others who saw it. They've described inaccurate scenes. Should I not trust what they say?
     
  19. Caretaker

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    I have been in communication with an IFB pastor Brother Joe, as to my concerns, and he has passed them on to other IFB pastors in his association. Brother Joe has been my wife's family pastor for more than 20 years, and he called me to give the eulogy at her uncle's funeral.

    Here is a response from one of the pastor's who has in fact seen the movie:

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Seriously, I wrote a post about the Passion the night I saw it a few weeks ago. I said I was terribly conflicted - and couldn't figure out why. I agree with everyone who has talked about how powerful it is etc. etc. - and I'm excited to see how God is going to use it - yet there was something nagging at me about it - and just couldn't figure it out. Well, I just realized one of the things that troubled me - it's the fact that basically only the physical suffering of Jesus is dramatized in the film - yet, that was not the most agonizing thing about the Cross for Jesus. It was our sin. The physical agony was incredible - and Gibson does a fantastic job in that area - but many thousands of people experienced the same physical pain and suffering. It wasn't even unusual during that time. What set Jesus apart was that he bore the sins of the world. His "stripes" were different from anyone else that had been scourged. His crucifixion was unique. In addition to the physical

    aspect - he, a totally perfect being - He being God - bore our sin. He experienced the worst that man could dish out - but far more - He bore the wrath of God. That is the missing element in this movie. Now, with that said - I have no idea how that can be portrayed on film. I'm not saying I could do any better - but that element - which is the most important element - is missing. It was the sin He bore - not just the physical agony that made the Cross a victory.


    When the movie ended I was moved deeply, very deeply. There were tears in my eyes - I could hardly breathe - yet there was something "missing". I was disappointed - and I just couldn't sort it out. This has nagged me for three weeks now and I think I finally understand. That is not meant as a condemnation for the film - I'm still very supportive - but I also realize that this "missing" link is what must be emphasized as we discuss the film with the lost. Somehow we have to emphasize that the physical suffering that people see was horrible - but the sin of the world - our sin - was what crushed the heart of Jesus even more. The fact that for a time Jesus, the all pure, holy one - became sin for us - was even worse than the scourging, the crown of thorns, the nails etc.


    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Many thousands are going to see the movie starting tomorrow. We must stand and proclaim the Gospel, and share with the lost the Good News that Christ bore our sins, and through Him alone our sins are forgiven, and when He proclaimed,"It is finished", not "it is accomplished", our sins have been forgiven and ALL who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Just as I am, without one plea,
    But that Thy blood was shed for me,
    And that Thou bidst me come to Thee,
    O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, and waiting not
    To rid my soul of one dark blot,
    To Thee whose blood can cleanse each spot,
    O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, though tossed about
    With many a conflict, many a doubt,
    Fightings and fears within, without,
    O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, poor, wretched, blind;
    Sight, riches, healing of the mind,
    Yea, all I need in Thee to find,
    O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, Thou wilt receive,
    Wilt welcome, pardon, cleanse, relieve;
    Because Thy promise I believe,
    O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, Thy love unknown
    Hath broken every barrier down;
    Now, to be Thine, yea, Thine alone,
    O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, of that free love
    The breadth, length, depth, and height to prove,
    Here for a season, then above,
    O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

    --------------------
    A Servant of Christ,
    Drew

    Psalm 51:10
    Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
     
  20. Kiffin

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    Actually Jesus was crucified in his in His undergarments. (I believe that is what Diane is stating). Normaly people in other parts of the Empire were crucified naked to humiliate them but it is believed this was not the case in Palestine. Rome was usually sensitive to the cultures they ruled and Old Testament law prohibited public nakedness.

    Diane is the only one of us to have seen the movie so I am amazed at the attacks here by those who have not. I have a ticket reserved to see it Friday afternoon (Unless I have a Church emergency) and will not comment pro or con til I see it.

    All Jesus movies have errors in them. Even the best like MATTHEW, JESUS OF NAZARETH and the Campus Crusade film JESUS.

    BTW, If I do have criticism of the Christian community it is there seems to have been a lack of support for a recent Jesus movie THE GOSPEL OF JOHN. I have heard rave reviews for this movie as possibly being the most accurate but very little fanfare for it. I hope to purchase it once it comes out on DVD. [​IMG]
     

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